Balance Is A Myth – Here’s What To Do Instead

[00:00:00] Linda Bethea: I personally think that vulnerability is a superpower. I think in the corporate world, a lot of people are afraid to be vulnerable. They think it’s going to make them look weak or unsuccessful. But I actually think it makes you look stronger because everyone at the end of the day is struggling with something. We went through a rough patch when she was probably 10 to 13. She hated me. I mean, I couldn’t do anything right. I couldn’t breathe right without annoying her. But I think the strength, strength of the foundation we built carried through and they come back around. And now she’s my best friend.

[00:00:32] Kevin Rice: Welcome back to CEOs and ABCs. Our guest today is Linda Bethea, former CMO of Danone. She has previously held executive positions at Diageo and PepsiCo and today sits on the board of the Make a Wish Foundation. In 2025, she was honored by Forbes as a Top 50 Entrepreneurial CMO. She’s also the host of the Brand New Perspectives podcast alongside her daughter Finley.

Today we dive into the realities of leading in your career while raising a daughter as a single mother and how she remained present for both. Linda shares her perspectives on what it takes to be a CMO at some of the largest food and beverage companies in the world, why trust and vulnerability are the foundations of great teams, and why work life integration is the best way of creating balance. This is a conversation about how to create a family friendly working culture, why you should ask your teams for help, and putting family first no matter what life throws your way.

[00:01:24] Linda Bethea: I went through fertility treatments to have my daughter. Why did I invest all of this time and energy? I couldn’t wait to be a mom. And yet I’m never home.

[00:01:34] Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails and everything in between. I’m your host, Kevin Rice. Here’s today’s episode. Welcome back to CEOs and ABCs. My guest today is Linda Bethea. Linda, thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:52] Linda Bethea: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:53] Kevin Rice: I’m excited to chat today and I appreciate you coming on cause I know that you just got off a couple weeks of travel and I wanted to start there since it’s recent for you because you went to Cannes and you brought your daughter with you.

So what was that experience like for you?

[00:02:10] Linda Bethea: It was absolutely incredible. This was my fifth can, but it was like my first all over again because I was seeing it through her eyes. I think I’m probably pretty jaded at this point. And being able to witness it through her eyes made me completely grateful for where I am in my life and the things that I can now share with her. She had a fantastic time and I was so proud of her. Not only did she take the initiative to attend sessions and network with people on her own, but she actually had an opportunity to speak at a brand Innovators event about marketing to Gen Z and how Gen Z behaviors have reshaped the shopper journey. And the audience was completely captivated by her. So it was a very proud mom moment.

[00:02:56] Kevin Rice: I love that. Yeah. What did that bring up for you? Seeing her on stage and sharing her own thoughts and Wisdom As a 16 year old, you must have been very proud. But what did that bring up for you?

[00:03:07] Linda Bethea: So many things. I mean, one, I think back to when I was her age, I would never have been able to do that. I was an incredibly shy, introverted child. I still am very much an introvert, but I’ve overcome that for my career.

But to see her at age 16, being able to command a room and be able to answer questions from the audience with such poise and grace was just incredible.

[00:03:31] Kevin Rice: Yeah, that’s. That’s so cool. I take my kids on work trips and I, I took them to a Patel event recently. A few months ago, we went out with some executives and the kids, their kids, but they also kind of had an idea of, oh, this person works at this big company that I know. This person works at Disney, this person works at Universal. And so they got pretty excited spen spending time with business professionals. And my son, he’s only about to turn 10, but he’s like a budding entrepreneur with his lemonade stand and always selling different trading cards and stuff. So it was a, it was a cool experience to bring them into my world. So is this kind of a new thing for you where you’re trying to integrate family more into work or is that something you’ve always done as Finley was growing up?

[00:04:16] Linda Bethea: Yeah, I’m a big believer in work life integration. I got divorced during kind of the prime of my career. And it was a time when all of a sudd and I was managing custody schedules and work travel and trying to figure it all out. And I quickly realized that I had no role models at work to show me how that was done. Or maybe there were people struggling with it, but they weren’t talking about it openly at that time. And so that was a pivotal moment for me where I was like, I’m going to be the type of leader and role model that I wish I had. And I’m going to show other working parents, like, how to make it work right and figure it out as I go along. And so I’ve always, since then, been very vocal about parenting and the workplace. I’ve never tried to sneak out, pick her up from somewhere, or to go to one of her games. I’ve been very open, like, hey, I need to leave at 3 o’clock today to pick Finley up from school. And then there’s been times where childcare has fallen through and you have to bring her to the office. And what I learned early on is that that integration between work and life made me not only a better mom, but it also made me a better marketer and a better leader. My team started to see me as somebody real. I was no longer this executive in an ivory tower, but a real struggling with the same things that they were struggling with every day. And I came across as much more open and empathetic and authentic. And so it definitely helped me build stronger relationships with my team members. And then it also made me a better marketer because I was able to have a focus group of one. She quickly got immersed in my brands, in some of the challenges I was dealing with from a business standpoint. And she’s super smart, and so having her insight on things was incredible. And that’s almost what led to us starting our podcast together and starting her ability to speak on stages about marketing to Gen Z, because she started absorbing that really early on on visits to the office or on work trips with me.

[00:06:13] Kevin Rice: That’s amazing. I love how you made the conscious decision to be a role model because you didn’t already have one. And I think that whole idea of bringing your whole self, your authentic self, to work has really only been in the corporate world for the last maybe five years.

When I was running my company, everything was very siloed. And of course, we’d exchange pleasantries and I’d get to know a little bit about people’s families, but nobody talked about how difficult it was to have a career, have a family life, maybe try to have some hobbies, because we all sacrifice our personal interests and hobbies pretty quickly. Like, that’s the first thing to go. And our health. Right. It’s hard to attend to our health when we have so much going on and nobody really talked about the struggles. And so how would you encourage your employees to be and candid with you about what they’re going through?

[00:07:02] Linda Bethea: Yeah, I think we need to normalize parenting in the workplace. And actually it would even go beyond parenting. Right. At the end of the day, we’re all human beings with full lives outside of work. Whether we’re parents, whether we’re friends, whether we’re caring for our own aging parents, whether we have pets. Those are all things that are critically important to people’s lives. And so as a manager, I make it a priority now to really understand what somebody’s life is like outside of work and what their priorities are. I’ve also been someone that’s not really big on FaceTime. If I hired you, I trust you to do your job, regardless of what hours that looks like. For some people, they want to be in the office in a more standard 9 to 5 schedule. For others, that’s not going to work for them. I had a period in my career where I didn’t have a nanny. And so I was the one that was taking my daughter to school every single morning. And I couldn’t go to the office until I did. And I had to pick her up every day at 3 o’. Clock. And I made that work. I then would log on at night and get my work done. But that was a schedule that worked for me. That schedule may not work for someone else, but as a manager, I need to understand what does work for them, because we can make it work as long as there’s open communication.

[00:08:14] Kevin Rice: Yeah, you’ve had this really impressive career, going from Frito Lay to Pepsi to Diageo, and most recently as the chief marketing officer of Danone. How did you get to where. Where you are today?

Not necessarily the job by job overview, but what do you attribute the success of your career to?

[00:08:34] Linda Bethea: I would love to say that it was all intentional, but there’s been a lot of luck and happenstance along the way. I mean, I’m somebody that’s always been very ambitious. And so I knew in business school that I wanted to work in brand management for a food and beverage company. I love food and beverage. That’s my passion. I wake up thinking about what I’m going to have for breakfast. I finish breakfast and think about what I’m going to have for lunch. Like, I love food.

And so I got my first role at Frito Lay and was able to enter their brand management program, which was a fantastic foundational training ground. But I realized pretty quickly that if I wanted to succeed in business, particularly at a big global corporation, that I needed to understand more beyond marketing. I need to understand other business functions in order to be a successful marketer and leader.

So after a few years in the Brand management rotational program actually raised my hand and ask for a rotation into the field. Frito Lay operates a direct store delivery system with thousands of feet on the street selling in and merchandising the products every day. And so being able to understand that side of the business, I think was an eye opening experience for me. I was also able to lead a team of significantly older, more experienced sales professionals, which was very humbling as a leader to come into that without the experience and have to lead that team successfully in a very competitive environment.

And so I feel like I’ve always looked for those challenges in my career. That may not have necessarily been the obvious move, but were ones that pushed me and made me better. And so I think I owe some of my success to that. I’ve also been pretty intentional about working at places where I felt like it was a good fit with my values and my purpose. That’s ultimately what led me to my most recent role at Danone. Was knowing that they were a certified B corporation that believed in using business as a force for good. And particularly delivering health through food to as many people as possible. That was something that really resonated with me personally. Someone that grew up, had a working mom and so ate a lot of junk food growing up, a lot of TV dinners. And so as a working mom myself, a single working mom, health and nutrition is difficult, but it’s important. And so being able to choose opportunities that resonate with me not just professionally, but personally is really important.

[00:10:57] Kevin Rice: Yeah. Pepsi, Frito Lay, Yum Brands. I feel like those are the kinds of companies for young professionals where you go in and you get this just incredible education and training early in your career. And then as I look at people that I admire in marketing and operations, they all seem to come from those three or four companies.

So I think that’s probably something that if I was a younger professional looking at stepping into an executive role someday, that’s what I’d be looking for. I’d be looking for companies with really strong training programs that give me a broad view of how all of this works beyond just my specific discipline.

[00:11:37] Linda Bethea: Yeah, I mean, I look across my PepsiCo network and I still keep in touch with so many people I worked with at both Frito and Pepsi. And they’re all now CMOs or CEOs of incredible companies. Which speaks to the quality of the experience that we all got growing up in the PepsiCo system. That being said, I do think, think the world has changed significantly. And today it’s also important that you’re getting More entrepreneurial, scrappier experience, particularly in consumer goods. Because I think that’s a lot of where the market is headed. A lot of the brands that are successful today are ones that are operating a little bit differently. And so the big companies are now acquiring those versus building them from scratch.

[00:12:20] Kevin Rice: Right. Because then they get that institutional knowledge that they can bring over to their legacy brands.

And yeah, I think companies are expecting marketers and really any sort of discipline to do more with a lot less these days.

[00:12:33] Linda Bethea: Yes, I would say being a CMO is one of the hardest C suite jobs because the scope is so broad and it changes almost daily. And so as a cmo, in order to be successful, you truly have to keep up. You have to keep your finger on the pulse of what’s happening with consumers, with customers, with competitors and with marketing technology.

[00:12:54] Kevin Rice: Yeah, you have a, this really interesting reputation for combining kind of warmth with very like decisiveness and clear direction. And in fact, I read that you have a nickname called the Velvet Hammer. How did you develop that style? Was it something that would just kind of came naturally to you?

[00:13:14] Linda Bethea: So I’ve always been somebody that’s very logical, fact based and decisive. That’s just inherent in my nature. And I think over the years as I’ve had different leadership opportunities and also personal challenges in my life, I’ve learned to balance that with the softer side of things. I actually just wrote a LinkedIn post on this earlier today that I think kindness and empathy are underrated leadership values and they weren’t necessarily ones that were held up as the pillars of success at places like PepsiCo. But the more I incorporated that into my style, the more I built true deep relationships with people, the more I liked myself as a person and a leader. But the more my teams performed right, building those trusting relationships that are built on real, authentic relationships creates high performing teams.

[00:14:08] Kevin Rice: Given that kind of leadership style of embracing empathy and kindness and balancing it with kind of decisiveness, how does that translate for you at home, especially as a single mother, how do you take the way you operate in your career and show up either differently or the same way with nuance at home for your daughter? Finley?

[00:14:27] Linda Bethea: Oh, I wish it were that easy and you could just lift and shift. I mean, I think parenting a 16 year old is extremely difficult in any circumstance. I think in my circumstance it’s just her and I the majority of the time. And so that’s both a blessing and a curse. I think what I’ve done well is build a really strong foundation with her. Like I’ve really prioritized quality time throughout her life. And that enabled us to build a really strong relationship that’s able to withstand a lot of the challenges that come with parenting a teenager. We went through a rough patch when she was probably 10 to 13. She hated me. I mean, I couldn’t do anything right. I couldn’t breathe right without annoying her. But I think the strength of the foundation we built carried through and, you know, they come back around. And now she’s my best friend. And I think the other piece it’s built on is that trust and communication. We talk about everything, all of the uncomfortable conversations. She knows she can come to me with any question. Her friends come to me with questions that they don’t feel comfortable asking their parents. I’m a big believer at work and at home about transparent communication and trust. And so I think those are the foundation of any good relationship.

[00:15:43] Kevin Rice: Yeah, we talked about that earlier, of being able to get your teams to show up more authentically and be more open about their personal lives at work. And it sounds like you have a really tight relationship with your daughter where she feels comfortable sharing her struggles with you.

How do you foster that sort of relationship? Given a lot of people and a lot of kids tend to get keep things to themselves, how do you encourage them to open up and create that sort of dynamic?

[00:16:10] Linda Bethea: I personally think that vulnerability is a superpower. I think in the corporate world, a lot of people are afraid to be vulnerable. They think it’s going to make them look weak or unsuccessful. But I actually think it makes you look stronger because everyone at the end of the day is struggling with something. And if you can bring that to the forefront and show like, hey, I am human. I’m dealing with this over here. And so as a result, I may not show up as my best 24 7, but at least she’ll understand why I am the way I am and why I’m doing the things I’m doing. I think that is powerful and that goes a really long way. And so I’ve always been open with my daughter around, hey, everybody’s struggling with something. You may not know what it is, but just have that in the back of your mind in your interactions with people. They may be having a bad day for reasons you don’t understand and you may never know and you may never understand, but at least it gives you some empathy in your interactions. And I think I was attending a corporate training once, and I typically don’t love corporate trainings, but this one was really powerful because they talked about the Fact that most people, and particularly people in the business world, don’t like to ask for help. It’s the same thing around feeling weak or feeling vulnerable. People don’t want to ask for help. But if you flip that, think about how you feel when somebody asks you for help.

That’s an incredible feeling to be able to help someone. So why wouldn’t you want to make somebody feel that way by asking them for help? And that really struck with me. And so, you know, again, it goes back to that openness and that transparent communication of we all need help sometimes. And so be open about your struggles and, you know, hopefully you’ll get the help you need.

[00:17:55] Kevin Rice: Yeah. In the vein of vulnerability, one of the things I really struggled with when I was running my organization in the workplace, people would come to me with a challenge, and it’d typically be work related. Because at the time there wasn’t a lot of sharing personal struggles. But if they came to me with a challenge, then my typical response was, gonna be, okay, let’s figure out a solution to this.

Whereas when I come home, my son might be like, hey, I’m in my case, missing my biological mom because he hasn’t had her in his life for a long time.

And in that moment, there’s nothing I can do to solve the problem. Right. It’s not something I have control over. And so I just have to sit there with him and just be and allow him to share his emotions and connect with him, and there’s no solution.

And so I really struggled with that kind of difference. Cause I spent so much time problem solving in my career. And I got significance to your point was people would come to me and I’d feel significant because I could help them figure out their solution. And then at home, it was the exact opposite. And so I always struggled with that. My professional hat. I spent so much time training that muscle. And then at home, it was just a very different way of needing to show up. And it took me a long time to learn that.

[00:19:11] Linda Bethea: Yeah, I think it’s important in any conversation, professional or personal, is to understand what that person needs from you in that moment. Because sometimes they do want you to help them problem solve, other times they just want you to listen. I had a direct report recently at Denone. We had a great relationship that we built over time, went through some difficult phases, but we got to a place where it was like he would come into my office and say, I just need to vent. I don’t need you to do anything. I don’t need you to say anything. I just want you to listen. Or other times it was, hey, I have a problem, and I really need your help thinking through what I do next. Right. So again, being upfront about the role each of you is playing in the conversation and what hat you need to wear as a manager or a person in that moment is really important.

[00:19:56] Kevin Rice: Yeah. I mean, I’ve just tried to be explicit with my son, and it’s like, hey, do you need me to hug you? Do you need me to hear you? Or do you need me to help you? And I wish I could just do that intuitively, but it’s something where I need to actually ask him and say, what do you need from me right now?

[00:20:12] Linda Bethea: Yeah. My daughter has very high eq and she is a very good communicator, so she has taught me a lot because that was not my natural strong suit. And so working with her over the years, she’ll be like, hey, mom, you’re not being very direct right now. You’re being passive aggressive. And she’ll call me out on it. And so I’ve learned a ton from her. I mean, hopefully she’s learned just as much from me, but it’s definitely a two way street.

[00:20:37] Kevin Rice: I’m sure she has. And kids are such a good mirror at a young age. If kids are yelling, it’s probably because they got it from their parents. I have a nasty habit of biting my fingernails, and I noticed my kids starting to do that, and I was like, oh, no, I don’t want them to pick that habit up. And it forced me to think about, okay, how do I need to change my bad behaviors that I really wouldn’t spend the time to fix. Until I saw them picking them up, and I was like, okay, now that’s something that I don’t want to transfer to them.

[00:21:06] Linda Bethea: Yeah, it’s amazing how much they absorb and mirror back. My daughter jokes like, the apple didn’t fall far from the tree and never fell off the tree.

[00:21:14] Kevin Rice: Right.

[00:21:15] Linda Bethea: Like, we’re literally the same person. And so that makes me want to be a better person.

[00:21:20] Kevin Rice: Hi, Kevin here. If you’re enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who’s working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I’d really love it if you could share this episode with them. It’s one of the best ways you can help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they’re proud of without missing the moments that matter most.

When you were navigating divorce and co parenting when Finley was younger, you had a executive career at Pepsi. What commitments did you make to yourself about how you were going to show up for her at the time, and how were you able to hold firm on those commitments?

[00:21:56] Linda Bethea: My number one commitment was that I was always going to put her first, even if it meant my career had to take a bow.

And, you know, divorce was not easy. I made a lot of mistakes or things I would have done differently, but I always tried to put her first, and I tried to do that without impacting my career. And I think a lesson I learned early on was to ask for help, because initially I kept the divorce very close to the vest. I wasn’t telling my coworkers what I was going through. Um, and I had somebody I was very close to. We’d worked side by side in a couple different roles at PepsiCo. And he was the one that I ultimately shared it with. And he was like, I, why didn’t you come to me earlier? I would have helped you. I would have been here for you. And so that was kind of a key moment, like, okay, I don’t need to do this alone. I don’t need to keep this to myself. I have coworkers that will be willing to help and make this easier. And so that was a big learning for me because all of a sudden, if I couldn’t go on a certain work trip because of my custody schedule, he was willing to cover that for me, and it just made things so much easier. But that was, again, a commitment I made, was I was going to prioritize her. I was going to either move around my work schedule, move around my work trips, or take her with me if I needed to, because ultimately she was my number one priority, and she still is. I only have two years with her until she goes to college. The time goes really fast, and I want to maximize that as much as possible.

[00:23:20] Kevin Rice: When. When I was going through divorce, mine lasted about three and a half years, and that also coincided with COVID and I was parenting full time, and my company was growing like crazy. And it was really difficult because I would go between, say, a client meeting, and then I’d have to completely switch gears compartmentalize, and maybe get on the phone with my attorney, or I’d have to go into a zoom room for court because court wasn’t happening in person anymore. And then after a really contentious, high conflict trial, I’d have to switch back and be in team mode or leader mode. And it was really difficult for all that, like, context switching and kind of the way that I did it was just a real focus on compartmentalizing and having kind of little transition rituals from going from one mindset to the other.

How did you manage that time period of going through a divorce and working and raising your daughter?

Was there a period where kind of the weight of being a parent and the weight of your career were really in conflict and pulling against each other?

[00:24:28] Linda Bethea: It’s so hard. I mean, people that haven’t gone through a divorce don’t understand the emotional toll it takes on you. There’s all the physical and logistical aspects, there’s the dealing with the lawyers, but the emotional toll is really heavy. And so one thing I did right was I actually took a three month sabbatical from work at the height of the divorce to spend that time with her and take care of myself. And I will never regret doing that. My manager at the time was completely supportive and it really enabled me to focus on. Okay, our life just got completely upended. What is it going to look like going forward? What new routines, structures, et cetera, are we going to put in place to be able to navigate through this new.

I think that was really important. Unfortunately, there were. That wasn’t the end of the divorce. There were several legal battles down the road that I had to deal with. And I think for me it was okay, what am I going to do to take care of myself as a parent, as a leader at work? Maybe not be my best self, but not be my worst self either. And that’s when I really started prioritizing exercise. For me, that is important as much mentally as it is physically. It keeps me grounded. If I work out first thing in the morning, I feel much better able to tackle whatever happens throughout the day. And then the other piece is relying on your friends. I have a great network of girlfriends that have supported me through all life’s ups and downs. And it’s truly my found family and I couldn’t do it without them.

[00:25:59] Kevin Rice: I will echo everything you just said. One, I think that’s a great example of you following through with your commitments to your daughter. Taking a sabbatical at peak career moments is a really difficult thing for ambitious high performers to do.

But you made the decision to prioritize your daughter and you followed through with it, and so that’s really commendable. And then I’d also echo, exercise and community is everything. That was the first thing my attorney told me. And you know, even today I still work out with friends at five in the morning before the day starts. And that’s kind of where I try to habit stack and fit multiple things in together. If I’m going to spend time with friends, we’re not going out drinking, we’re not going to lunch, we’re going hiking, we’re going surfing, we’re working out together. And that’s how I take care of my health and the social aspect at the same time.

[00:26:50] Linda Bethea: I had a great group of women during COVID We would work out in someone’s garage.

Yeah. It was a way to. To your point, stack everything together and get it done in one hour. I’m a great multitasker.

[00:27:01] Kevin Rice: I think that’s also great that you had a. I think you said a manager at the time that was really supportive of you.

I don’t know that that’s all that common. Haven’t really ever felt like the corporate world is super supportive for working parents, at least from the lens I saw it through and kind of what I was exposed to.

[00:27:18] Linda Bethea: Yeah, it’s not.

[00:27:19] Kevin Rice: Yeah. What are you. What’s your perspective on that?

[00:27:22] Linda Bethea: I think it’s twofold. I think one, it’s individuals. Right. More people need to normalize parenting in the workplace, talk about it, role model, what good behaviors look like, what good leaders look like. There still aren’t enough of us that are doing that to make it okay. But it’s also policies and institutional, systemic things in corporate America. So, for example, when I was at PepsiCo, you lived and died by the numbers, the weekly numbers. They came out on Sunday afternoons. And so there were often calls if the numbers weren’t good on a Sunday afternoon to explain your results.

That’s something that was systemic and institutional in the way of managing the business.

That’s something you could change. Danone. I remember there was, early on in my time there, a senior leader meeting that required significant travel on a Sunday. I would have had to leave my daughter on a Sunday morning. That was during my custody time with her. And I wasn’t willing to do that. And so I called the head of HR and said, hey, this is not okay. You’re asking people to leave their families on a Sunday to travel across the country for a meeting because you chose to have it start Monday morning. You easily could have chosen to have it start at a different day and time so that they didn’t have to do that. And so for that first year, I made the choice to go late to the meeting so that I didn’t have to leave her on a Sunday. And then I worked with leadership so that the following year, they moved the meeting out a day so that nobody had to travel on a weekend. But I shouldn’t be the one to have to do that. That’s why it takes more people and more leaders willing to speak up and change things so that that would occur to somebody before they even schedule a meeting like that.

[00:29:03] Kevin Rice: I’m definitely guilty of that. I think when my son was younger, I was the president of the organization, but I was also very closely involved with the sales and client services team. So they all reported up to me and we almost always had client meetings on Mondays on site and it’d be all over the country and people flew out every week on Sundays. And I didn’t think twice about it. It was just like that’s almost the norm in business. I was growth at all cost. Right? That was my perspective up until maybe 2021, 2022 when things started shifting for me. So you mentioned a few, but what are some of the things organizations can do to better support their working parents at their company?

[00:29:43] Linda Bethea: So many things. I mean one, starting with policies. I think, you know, parental leave in this country is horrendous, right? You compare our parental leave versus Canada or the UK and depending on the company you’re at. Luckily I’ve worked for companies that are generous in US terms with six months of paid leave, but most companies are not. And so we need to fix that because you have to give people time to navigate their new reality after giving birth. I think having more flexible work policies is really important for working parents. I think during COVID we all proved that we can work in either a remote or a hybrid environment. And now you’re seeing so many, many companies go Back to mandatory 5 day a week policies, which I don’t think is the right thing to do. I think that’s going to significantly impact working parents and working mothers in particular. And you’re going to see a significant decrease of women being successful in the workplace as a result. We need flexibility. Doesn’t mean we’re not great at our jobs, doesn’t mean we’re not ambitious, doesn’t mean that FaceTime isn’t important. I truly believe in the importance of building real relationships in person relationships and the ability to teach people learning by doing and all of that. But it has to be balanced with the flexibility that working parents need to do both jobs.

[00:31:04] Kevin Rice: Well, I love all of that. Is this something that you’ve always believed in or was there something that happened that caused you to shift? Because again, my own experience was I was 110% into my career for a very long time and then My family life changed. I kind of went through my own emotional struggles dealing with all of that. And then I started to shift and realize that, like, the version of success I was chasing was what I was conditioned to by society and just kind of like the business world I was growing up in. And then I had to reframe what is my own version of success. So curious, was there a shift period for you? Did something happen that changed the way you were thinking about what success for you looks like?

[00:31:49] Linda Bethea: I think there were a couple key moments. So I mentioned earlier that at a point in my career, during my time at Frito Lay, I moved into a field sales role. That was when I moved from Texas up to New York with my then husband. And it was a role that required significant travel. My daughter was a year old, and I was on the road 133 days that year. And so that was just an experience where it was like, wow, I’m absolutely doing the right thing for my career, but at what expense to building a relationship with my one year old daughter? My husband at the time was starting a new company, so he was never home either. She was essentially being raised by our nanny. And so that was a real reckoning for me. And I went through fertility treatments to have my daughter. Like, why did I invest all of this time and energy? I couldn’t wait to be a mom, and yet I’m never home. And so that was kind of point number one. And then the divorce absolutely changed my perspective and made me rethink all of my priorities. And so in some ways, I’m grateful for that because I do think it. It really helped me prioritize what matters and put her first. And so I think those were two critical moments in my career that was like, okay, I need to rethink what’s important and find a way to prioritize that while still having a great career. I love to work, I love what I do, and I want to be successful. And so let’s think about what a new model could look like to make that work.

[00:33:14] Kevin Rice: Yeah, that was really the question I asked myself is how can I continue to be successful in my career without sacrificing my relationship with my kids? And I don’t really think the answer I found was work life, balance. I don’t know that really exists for somebody who works.

[00:33:28] Linda Bethea: There’s no such thing as balance when you’re a working parent.

[00:33:31] Kevin Rice: Yeah, it’s kind of bullshit, right? It’s lip service. And what I ultimately found was it was more about intentionality and presence so intentionality, meaning I plan my work weeks, I plan my meetings. Like I would never walk into a board meeting or a one on one without having some sort of agenda yet. I would come home and just be default dad and just kind of spend the evening with the kids and have no real plan. When I started shifting and actually having intentionality to how I’m going to spend my time and then being more present, setting my phone aside, that’s when I felt the closeness coming together. What does your version of presence look like with your daughter today?

[00:34:13] Linda Bethea: Yeah, I love that word intentionality and presence because I think that’s so important. I mean, I mentioned earlier I’m a multitasker and I think a lot of working parents are doing that, right? They’re on the phone while making dinner, while giving the bath. You’re doing all these things at once and you’re not really present in any of them. And so I’ve also tried to focus on being present in the moment. And so at work that means to your point, to being really prepared for the meeting, making sure that I should be in that meeting and that the right people are in that meeting. We’re not wasting anyone’s time. Does it need to be an in person meeting or is this something that could happen over zoom or via email? Let’s make sure that the time we are spending together, we are maximizing that time and using it optimally. And the same thing at home. Early on, I made it a practice. When I walked in the door, I would put my phone in a box and I would make sure that while I was making dinner, while I was giving her her bath, while we were reading bedtime stories, I wasn’t tempted by that distraction. And of course then it would cause stress and anxiety after I put her to bed and I’d open up to a gazillion emails. But at least I knew for the past two hours that I was fully present and focused on building that relationship, which I think has paid out in spades.

[00:35:26] Kevin Rice: Yeah, it’s funny you mentioned multitasking versus presence because I’ve told this story before. I used to read bedtime stories to my kids and I could read the entire bedtime story while mentally rehearsing a sales presentation or a leadership meeting. And I would be mentally in two places at once. And I thought I was brilliant. I thought I was crushing it. I was like, I am doing this thing, I’m multitasking. And what I found was my kids could feel the difference. They could feel energetically. I wasn’t There they would say, dad, why aren’t you doing the voices? I was like, oh, I forgot. Cause I was like preparing for this next meeting and I was not present. And that affected our connection and that affected that along with travel and long work hours, affected kind of their primary attachment with me because at this time it was me, them full time together. I wasn’t co parenting. And that started to show up in difficult behaviors like a lot of defiance and low frustration tolerance. Things that I couldn’t figure out what was going on. They were just baffling to me. And then I started to to do a lot of research into nervous system and understanding polyvagal theory and seeing how all this works. And at the end of the day, it comes down to like, kids need a primary parental attachment for their nervous system to develop properly. And I missed that for the first couple years. And now I’m spending the next 10 years trying to fix problems that I created at a young age because I was so focused on my career.

[00:36:56] Linda Bethea: We’ve all made mistakes, right? I mean, we’re all just doing the best we can with the hand we’ve been dealt. I don’t think any of our lives necessarily went the way we expected.

And you take what comes and you figure out what to do with it. But it’s interesting on the phone piece because it comes full circle. I have a 16 year old who is glued to her phone and I’ve noticed that when she has too much screen time, similarly the behaviors and the engagement, it all goes off the rails. And so she would say I’m too strict. But I do have screen time limits on her phone. And we have rules like no phones during mealtime. It.

But I’m only able to enact those rules because I’ve held myself to that standard over the years. It would be impossible if I was the one always checking my work email during dinner. But now I can sit there and say, put your phone down. We don’t have phones at meals because I’ve been role modeling that for years.

[00:37:48] Kevin Rice: That’s great. Yeah, you can’t be hypocritical because I

[00:37:50] Linda Bethea: am in a lot of other roles, but not on that.

[00:37:54] Kevin Rice: Well, and obviously you guys are spending a lot of time together because you started a podcast together. So tell us about that. That’s super fun. And gosh, what an amazing thing to be able to help her develop those kind of skills at, you know, a relatively young age.

[00:38:09] Linda Bethea: Yeah, so that’s something that actually came out of work life integration. A couple years ago, my childcare Fell through. And she had to accompany me on a work trip to Colorado, where I was speaking on stage about marketing to Gen Z. And so we were sitting at LaGuardia waiting for our flight, and she said, wait, what? What are you doing in Colorado? And I explained what I was doing, and she was like, oh, I’m gentle.

And I said, actually, you are. Why don’t you come on stage with me? And she was like, wait, can I do that? And I was like, sure, why not? I don’t think either of us knew what we were getting into, but she got up on stage, and all of a sudden she had this moment where it was like, holy crap, there’s over a hundred people in this room and they’re all looking at me. But she handled it so well, and I think she was really proud of herself afterwards because we got off stage and all these people swarmed her asking questions, and she was like, mom, they didn’t want to talk to you. Like, you’re the CMO and nobody wanted to talk to you. They only wanted to talk to me. And I was like, because you’re bringing a different perspective. They get to hear from me all day long. They go to these conferences, they go to these meetings. They hear from CMOs and thought leaders. They don’t get to hear from the actual Gen Z perspective. And so that was the idea moment where it was like, hey, let’s start a podcast together where we provide the perspective from a CMO and an actual Gen Z. And so we launched the podcast this year. It’s called A Brand New Perspective, and we share our thoughts on marketing, motherhood, mental health, and, you know, any hot topics.

[00:39:36] Kevin Rice: Well, I blew it today because I wish I would have had Finley on the show, and I just totally didn’t think of it until it was too late.

[00:39:43] Linda Bethea: Can have her on a future episode.

[00:39:46] Kevin Rice: Perfect. When you’re thinking about it. Back to the idea of intentionality. Is the podcast about spending time together, connecting? Are you trying to teach her life skills or professional skills along the way? What’s your goal of doing this together?

[00:40:02] Linda Bethea: I think there was probably less intentionality than maybe there should have been in starting it. It was just a fun thing to do together. But it’s been really interesting seeing how excited she gets about it. Like, hey, mom, when are we recording the next episode? And we’ll brainstorm topics together. She gets really into the analytics. Like, we’ll. We don’t have enough followers. We don’t have enough listeners. And why did they like this episode more than this episode? So I do think it’s teaching her so much and hopefully instilling confidence in herself that, hey, you have a really valued perspective to share with the world. Don’t ever forget that.

[00:40:38] Kevin Rice: And she’s only a couple years away from college. Does she know where she wants to go? Does she want to go to college or does she have an idea what she wants to do with her career?

[00:40:46] Linda Bethea: She has a color coded spreadsheet of, you know, potential schools, which shouldn’t surprise anybody that’s met her. Right now she’s really interested in science and thinks she may want to pursue some type of science, whether it’s veterinary science or marine biology. But she’s still got a few years to figure all that out and I’m confident she’ll be successful in whatever she chooses.

[00:41:06] Kevin Rice: That’s great. My, my 10 year old’s a budding marine biologist. We’ve taken him to swim with humpback whales and he’s gone out and spent time with this amazing nonprofit group called Coral Gardeners where he’s learned about how to farm coral to rebuild the coral population. So he’s a little budding ocean scientists and marine biologists, but he also changes his mind every day and you don’t have to decide anytime soon.

[00:41:29] Linda Bethea: I keep telling her I’m still figuring out what I want to be when I grow up.

[00:41:33] Kevin Rice: Right. Yeah. All of a sudden I became a podcaster because what else do you do after you sell your company?

[00:41:39] Linda Bethea: Never would have thought I would be on podcasts or hosting my own.

[00:41:43] Kevin Rice: But the skills she’s learning are highly transferable. Right. Leadership skills can benefit you in any career. Whether you go into medical or sciences. It’s still develop your ability to communicate and your ability to deal with conflict and all these things. So it’s such a great thing for her to be doing at this age.

[00:42:03] Linda Bethea: Yeah, I think we’re both learning a ton and we’re having fun doing it together.

[00:42:08] Kevin Rice: That’s amazing. You’ve talked about being open in your personal life, your professional life. Is there a line where you draw that there’s certain things you don’t bring to the workplace? What is appropriate to bring to being vulnerable and candid in your workplace and what’s maybe a little bit too much or cringy to not.

[00:42:28] Linda Bethea: That’s why you should have Finley on, because we have a whole segment in our podcast called Cool or Cringe. She would say I’m cringy all the time, but I think I try. If you want to be an authentic leader, you have to be as open and transparent as possible about everything. But I do think as you rise through the ranks and join kind of the upper echelon of management, it is important to understand the shadow you cast and how much the things you say can impact the broader organization. And so I think one line or boundary that you shouldn’t cross is issues in the workplace. Right. If you have interpersonal issues with coworkers or you don’t necessarily agree with certain policies or decisions, I think that’s where you have to be careful. I’m very vocal about speaking up against policies for working parents and things like that. But otherwise, as a leader, I think you have to be very careful, unfortunately.

[00:43:28] Kevin Rice: Yeah. Otherwise that’s how you create toxic workplaces and you create little cliques. And that’s not healthy for any organization. For anyone who’s listening and they are ambitious and trying to build a serious career while also parenting, what would you want them to know that maybe you had to figure out the hard way?

[00:43:49] Linda Bethea: A few things, I think. One, it’s not easy, and it doesn’t get easier, but you get stronger and you figure it out along the way. You will make mistakes. I think you learn from your past. Like our parents made mistakes. We make different ones. Right. We’ve learned from the ones our parents made. We try not to make those, but we mess our kids up in other ways. And I think that’s just life.

And you learn as you go and you hopefully get better every day.

[00:44:14] Kevin Rice: Yeah. You’ve also talked about kind of rejecting the idea that you can have it all. And we’ve all heard the four burners theory. What do you think’s a more honest and useful way of thinking about having a holistic life where you’re taking care of yourself, your interest, your family, your career. Is it more about just seasonality or what’s a better, more useful way to think about managing everything?

[00:44:38] Linda Bethea: Yeah, this is super cliched, but I do think it’s a marathon, not a sprint. And you need to think about your life in stages. And I didn’t realize that early on. Early on, I thought there was one linear path and I need to climb that ladder as fast as possible. And then life happened. And you take a moment to sit back and say, okay, what matters to me most at this point in time? And you have to get really, really clear on your priorities because you can’t have it all.

And so right now, my priority is my daughter. Two years until she goes off to college. And so that’s going to be my focus once she goes to college. My career will become my focus again, and that’s okay to not be doing both of those simultaneously. I’m still very much keeping a toe in the water and doing a lot of different things, but at the end of the day, it’s about prioritizing her and her needs. And then in two years, it’ll be all about me and my needs. And so it’s finding those moments and making them matter most at a certain time in your life.

[00:45:35] Kevin Rice: Have you thought about how you’re going to spend your time when it frees up and she goes off to college?

[00:45:40] Linda Bethea: So many thoughts again. Still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. I love making an impact. That’s what gets me most excited. And whether that’s making an impact in another corporate environment or through board, service and nonprofit work, both of those paths are very viable.

[00:45:58] Kevin Rice: Yeah. Are you. Are you active in any nonprofits right now?

[00:46:01] Linda Bethea: I am. I sit on the board of the Make A Wish foundation, which helps grant wishes to children with critical illnesses. And it’s been a really great experience.

Something again that you can just get excited about getting up in the morning and putting a smile on someone’s face.

[00:46:15] Kevin Rice: That’s amazing. We’ve talked a lot about your daughter and intentionality, and what do you hope she takes away from watching how you’ve built your career where you can be present for her and have a close relationship for her? What do you hope she takes from her relationship with you as she goes off and becomes her own adult?

[00:46:34] Linda Bethea: I mean, I hope she’ll realize that I’ll always be here for her, no matter what, and that she can rely on me. But I also hope that she develops the confidence that she knows that she can go off into the world and be independent and be successful, and she doesn’t. Doesn’t need my support to do that. She has it, but she doesn’t need it.

[00:46:53] Kevin Rice: Linda, this was a. A really fun conversation. I appreciate all of your honesty and just the insights you’ve shared along your journey as a leading CMO and a single mother.

I love that you’ve started a podcast with your daughter. I think that’s just an incredible way of creating work life integration at its highest level. I have no doubt all of our audience is going to leave feeling very inspired by this conversation. So thank you again for joining me.

[00:47:19] Linda Bethea: Yeah, that was super fun.

[00:47:20] Kevin Rice: If you’re enjoying conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We’ve got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow and stay tuned.