How to be a Resilient Leader (And Why You Need To Be One)

[00:00:00] Arne Arens: I now see the value of presence and being. There is.

[00:00:05] Kevin Rice: There’s kind of two paths. You either go down the path of becoming a victim or you choose the path of resilience.

[00:00:12] Arne Arens: When I was around 12 and my dad kind of disappeared, I remember my granddad, he said, you’re now the man in the house. And I’m like, what do you mean? I would take the late flight on Sunday night. They would be behind the window just kind of waving. Every Sunday, it just broke my heart.

[00:00:26] Kevin Rice: It creates this very real trap of saying, sorry, Daddy’s really tired. I had a long day at work. I can’t play Legos with you. Or, you know, one day becomes another day and it just starts to slow bleed. You look back, you know, man, I missed the last year.

[00:00:41] Arne Arens: I always have energy, always had and always have for wrestling with those guys. So that’s. That has been sort of a very primal way for us to physically and emotionally connect.

[00:00:52] Kevin Rice: You can’t be wrestling, doing jiu jitsu or anything and be thinking about a board meeting or thinking about a client presentation.

[00:00:59] Arne Arens: I definitely think that, you know, over, over the. I’ve left money on the table with, with the boys.

[00:01:05] Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails and everything in between. I’m your host, Kevin Rice. Here’s today’s episode. My guest today has steered some of the most well known names in outdoor and action sports through moments of reinvention. He’s the former global brand president of the North Face, the former CEO of Board Riders and and today he serves on the boards of YETI and Everlane. He brings a builder’s mindset to brands people live in, not just buy from.

What stands out in his leadership is the belief that the most empowering thing you can do for yourself is to actually empower others. He learned that growth comes not from doing everything alone, but from trusting people and creating the conditions for them to bring out their best. We talk about the realities of balancing home and family while leading globally recognized companies and the pressure of building its scale while holding on to what matters most.

If you’re trying to build something enduring at work without losing yourself or your life at home, this conversation’s for you. My guest today is Arne Ahrens. Arne, thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:13] Arne Arens: Thank you for having me on. Appreciate it.

[00:02:15] Kevin Rice: It’s great to see you.

Since the acquisition of board riders, you’ve chosen to take some time off and I’VE seen you share that. Having this time with your boys before they leave home for college has been just such a g.

How are you making the most of this time together?

[00:02:31] Arne Arens: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a, that’s the, the best opening question you could, you could, you could ask me, Kevin. So it’s been, it’s been a real, a real blessing. And you know, as I think you’ve, you know, you’ve shared your journey with us over the years a little bit and I think a lot of other people sort of that have done the things that have been sort of in high power careers and, and, and jobs that require a lot of mental and emotional bandwidth. It’s been, it’s been challenging to combine all that through, throughout the years. And I, I definitely think that over, over the years I’ve left money on the table with, with the boys, so to now have this time with them at a pretty pivotal moment in, in their lives, I think, you know, especially as boys. My dad and my, my mom got divorced when I, when I was around 12 and my dad kind of disappeared for, for a number of years. Left a little bit of a hole for me. And especially when you go from boy to man, that is a really important time to have also, you know, like a father figure and a male role model. So to be, I’m assuming that’s true for, for our boys as well. To now be there for them in the years when they’re sort of going through high school. They’re now a junior and a senior, 16 and 17. I’ve been with them for the last two years. So this, this whole sort of pretty pivotal moment of phase of high school, I’ve been able to be there with them and, and for them and that’s just been incredibly valuable. And I, you know, certainly for me and I hope, I hope the same, the same for them.

[00:04:00] Kevin Rice: I didn’t know that about you. That growing up you didn’t have a father in your life strikes a chord with me because my two boys don’t have their mother in their life. They haven’t seen her in about four years. How growing up in that context, like apologize. I don’t even know how to frame this question because I wasn’t thinking about asking it. But, you know, how did that affect who you grew up to become?

And you know, when you look back on those challenges in early childhood, how did they kind of strengthen into you, into who you are today?

[00:04:34] Arne Arens: Yeah. Yep.

Well, I think, I think first of all it’s required me to be you know, to take on a lot of responsibility early on and to maybe become, you know, an adult or a man sooner than what I would have naturally have, have done, sort of on the, on the path. I remember my granddad and he, I think he meant really well, but at some point, like right after divorce, he said, you know, because we live with, with, with my mom, me and my sister, and then sort of my dad’s, you know, sort of faded away a little bit. As I said, he said to me, you’re now the man in the, in, in the house. And I was 12. And I’m like, what do you mean? But I, I, I think I took that subconsciously, took that very seriously. So I pivoted into sort of a role where I just made sure, first of all, I could take care of myself at all times. And secondly, also took on sort of a, a little bit of a caretaker role, certainly on the, on the emotional front for my mom and for my sister. Whether it was effective or not, you know, we, that probably up for debate, probably not. But I still, and I still carried both of those traits with me up until up until today. So I think it’s, it’s, it’s had a pretty big and meaningful impact on me and, you know, who I’ve, who I was and who I’ve, who I’ve become, a, as a person, as a parent and as a, as a leader as well.

[00:05:59] Kevin Rice: Yeah. I think as a child struggles with loss of anything like this, there’s kind of two paths. You either go down the path of becoming a victim, and that becomes your reason for life not going the way that you wanted it to be, or you choose the path of resilience. And that is probably the harder path. But it’s the path that people we hear stories about, like Tony Robbins or Oprah Winfrey, have chosen, and they become some of our greatest inspiration. And you certainly, I’m sure, are an amazing inspiration for your boys.

How did you, how you talked about your focus on career advancement?

How did you experience or did you experience any tension between that priority and focusing on your career and nurturing a young family at the same time?

[00:06:46] Arne Arens: Yeah, I, I think for sure when, when the boys were born in Frankfurt, about a year after, after that we moved back to Amsterdam, and then I started at North Face, which required me to be in, in Switzerland. So our, our European headquarters was in Lugano in Switzerland. And so I traveled back and forth between Amsterdam and Lugano for more than six years, which was a pretty, a pretty big deal.

Also from A family perspective, right? Because I would take the late flight on Sunday night. You know, I just, I remember they would be behind the window just kind of waving while I was off on my, on my bike to the train to the airport. And it. It every Sunday just broke my heart. I’m like, oh, my goodness, what, like this is. What am I, what am I doing right? And then I would come back on either Thursday night or, or Friday night. And I did that for. For six years.

Now the arrangement that, that Katarina and, and my wife and I had was we went into this eyes wide open and we made the decision together. And I think that was the, that was the key. So the, the. The vision of labor was very clear. I mean, she’s been a very successful executive leadership coach throughout her career.

She was working for, for and for. For a coaching company at, at the time and then became the managing director of a, of a consulting firm in Amsterdam. And she was kind of. She was on her own career path. Um, but she, I mean, she’s, she’s an amazing woman and is like a. It’s like a superwoman. So, you know, it can. Can. Was able to do her stuff and her and her career things while also taking care of the kids at home. If I now look back, I’m like, how did we ever make that call? Because there it was. It was at times super rough on her. So in, in a way, we sometimes argue about that still, like, did we make the right call? And it was very lopsided in terms of I got to go to Lugano, just heads down, be focused on my career and contributing to the business for North Face. There’s. And then came back on Thursday night or Friday night, and then she was, she was running the house and she was running her career as well. And at some point right before we moved to San Francisco to the US For North Face Global, she kind of ran into a wall with that. But that is after.

After, you know, doing that, doing sort of double duty for like six years.

So we went into it eyes wide open. We had an agreement that we were going to do it this way and, and she, she pulled through. But knowing where it sort of got hurt, I probably to the, like, the like pretty much burned out at, at. At that time, right before we moved to the U.S.

i’m not sure if we would have done the same thing knowing what it, what it did to her. I mean, she was amazing doing it, but it also, she also paid a price for it. And then I think we as a consequence paid Paid a price for it as well.

And she, you know, she, she took a couple of years just to kind of rebalance herself. And she’s in a great place now, and she’s got a thriving, you know, coaching career, works with people around the world, executives and leadership teams, and she’s amazing. So it’s, it’s.

Yeah, but it definitely had some unintended consequences that we, that we, that we didn’t know going in. And it wasn’t always easy. That’s. That’s for sure. So that’s a bit of a long winded answer to your question, Kevin.

[00:10:10] Kevin Rice: So you’ve built some just huge brands in your career.

I’m curious, because one of the things I struggled with was that sort of motor that fueled me and achievement in my career kind of actually detracted from my ability to show up and be present at home.

So in my career, there were metrics, there were KPIs, there were deadlines, and so I could never let something slip. Whereas at home with my children, there are no deadlines, there’s no KPIs, my kids aren’t giving me a deadline of when I need to play Legos with them and scoring me on how present I am. And so it creates this very real trap of saying, sorry, Daddy’s really tired. I had a long day at work. I can’t play Legos with you, or I can’t build that fort with you right now. And then one day becomes another day and it just starts this slow bleed where you look back and you’re like, man, I missed the last year. I wasn’t present. I was giving everything to my career and I wasn’t showing up at home. I actually am writing a book right now, and I call that the corporate tax on presence. And I’m wondering, is that something you ever experienced in your career?

[00:11:24] Arne Arens: Yep. Yeah, there’s.

[00:11:25] Kevin Rice: What was that like for you?

[00:11:26] Arne Arens: Yeah, I think there’s been years where, and especially sort of that, the, the, the earlier years that I’ve, that I described where I was traveling back and forth to Switzerland and I was. So time was already one constraining factor. Right. Because I was only there, let’s say Friday, Saturday, Sunday at best. And then within that, the second constraining factor was just the, the, the preoccupation with other things, with work and with my own energy and all that stuff. So I think there’s, I think it got it. That got better as we moved to San Francisco as a family in 2017, because obviously now we were having, we we would have dinner every night together or almost every night, unless there was something with work.

So I think the, like, the physical location dimension got better, but I think the energy dimension did not.

And I think there was, you know, there was. There was selective moments, and they were mostly around things that came very natural to me.

So for some reason, I always have energy, always had and always have for wrestling with those guys.

Always. And they, and they do, too. So that’s. That has been sort of a very primal way for us to. To physically and. And emotionally connect through the years. You know, now I almost can’t take them anymore. I’ve. I’ve done a little bit of jiu jitsu over the last couple years just to stay ahead of. Stay ahead of the curve, which is, which is good because otherwise I would have been, you know, they would have, they, they. They can. You know, they would have dominated me by. By now. So that’s not the case. But it’s. So. But that’s just one example. And then, and then sports, you know, we’ve. As I said, we’ve been. Always been a big sports family, whether it was soccer or tennis or skiing or now volleyball. Like, I always have energy to go to that with them and just be there and just. And enjoy because sport is just such a big.

Such a big passion. But I will say, if you were, If Katarina were sitting here and she would answer this question, she’d be like, no. There was a lot of times when he wasn’t present where he was too tired and when he had to go to bed early and just because there was another big day coming tomorrow. I have definitely struggled with that over the years.

Now, having been at home for, you know, for about two years and being on the other side of this, I now, I now see that the, the value of presence and being there is. I mean, it’s just. I mean, it’s like. I think it’s the whole premise based on what you’re doing, the podcast in your book. And like, it’s so. It’s. It’s huge, right? It. It really is.

And I, I’ve always not had a. Had a mode where I’ve been able to really test the presence that I have right now while I’m also working. Right. I’m doing a number of board roles right now, which is really. Which is fantastic and fulfilling, but it’s not, you know, not being the CEO of a company. This is a very different. A very different dynamic.

So if I, you know, if, If I get back into a CEO Role. I think that’s when the real test comes of how present can you really be? Right. And, and everything that I’ve learned over the last two years about the value of this and sort of the. How do you, this, how do I now fuse that with a high performance mindset at work? Like, because I do believe you can, you can do both.

There’s routines and there’s beliefs based on which I think you can do both. And I think I’m better equipped now where I had to step back into a, into a full time operating role to do that than I, than I ever was. But, you know, the, in a way, the proof will also be in the pudding.

[00:15:02] Kevin Rice: That’s great. I love how you chose an activity with your kids that actually by its nature allows you to be present. You can’t be wrestling, doing jiu jitsu or anything and be thinking about a board meeting or thinking about a client presentation. Like you need to be in that moment or you’re getting choked out.

So that was probably the perfect thing for you guys to be doing. I noticed my kids and I will play Legos a lot and it’s too easy for my mind to slip because it’s just such a monotonous thing where I’m getting them, the pieces they’re building off the instructions.

But other things that we’ll do together like rock climbing or surfing, it’s the same thing. You have to be present in the moment and your kids are going to feel that and they’re going to, that will strengthen your connection within your family and within your relationship and your bond with your children. So you probably pick like the perfect thing you could be doing. And it’s great because those are things that you enjoy doing too.

[00:15:57] Arne Arens: Yeah, that’s right. It was. Yeah, no, I think that’s right. So. But if I, if I look back, I think there, you know, could I, if I, if I could change anything, I think it would be, it would certainly be, you know, having had more mind space and more presence for the, for, for Katarina and the boys over, over the years, for sure, because I’ve, I’ve left money on the table there.

[00:16:21] Kevin Rice: There’s, there’s no doubt in hindsight’s always 20 20. I came to the same realization and that’s why I’m embarking on this path to learn from other people who have had shared experiences. But at the same time, there’s also lessons that I’m sure your kids internalized about hard work and resilience and work ethic that maybe they don’t consciously talk about right now, but they will carry into their independence as they go off into college. They’ve seen you show up and perform at a very high level in something that you’re obviously very passionate about. I saw my dad work really hard in my youth, and that created a very strong work ethic in me, and that suited that. That prepared me to go off into the world and make something of myself and find something and pursue something that I love doing and I was passionate about.

So you also gave a gift to your children, and now there’s time for you to reconnect and strengthen your relationship and in such an important, pivotal moment before they go off and, you know, into manhood and become their own individuals.

[00:17:30] Arne Arens: Yeah, that’s an, that’s an amazing way to put it.

I love that.

[00:17:34] Kevin Rice: With them now on the cusp of going off to college, have you been thinking much about what that’s going to look like when you drop them off at school?

[00:17:42] Arne Arens: We, we have, as a matter of fact. And it’s. Yeah, it’s, it’s always felt like, oh, that’s, that’s, that’s years away, but it’s, I mean, it all happened so quick. And that’s a huge cliche, obviously. Yeah, my wife and I are talking about that a lot. You know, our. Within, like, within a year, the oldest one is going to be out the door and. And then a year later, the youngest one as well. And, you know, I think it’s really exciting. I mean, it’s, it’s time for them. And you kind of notice everybody, every parent goes through this. Right. But you notice over the years that they’re starting to become more independent. They’re starting to do their own thing. So it’s good. I mean, it’s a, it’s, it’s a natural, it’s a natural point of separation. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a thing that they have to do and they have to be their own. Have to be their own, their own people and have to become adults. So it’s exciting for them and it’s, it’s scary for us. You know, I mean, we’re, we’re like, oh, so that’s going to be just the two of us. We’re like, what are we, what are we going to do? And, you know, now like, revolves around sports and about, you know, like, things that they do and school and, and all these things, and that’ll be. That won’t be the case anymore. So I think we’re just going to have re engineer our lives as well. And you know, obviously millions and millions of people have gone before us and so there’s excellent ways to do this, but it’s, it’s definitely something that we talk about a lot. For sure. Yeah.

[00:18:58] Kevin Rice: Yeah. I still remember when my parents dropped me off to college and I was just so excited to leave the house and kind of move into this independence phase of my life. But I haven’t really reflected much on what, what that experience must have been like for my parents and let alone. Am I nowhere prepared to think about that for my kids. Obviously they’re a little bit further away, but. But yeah, they’re. They’re growing up into their own little people. You know, I, I can see it’s just going to happen a lot faster than I think it will. Everybody says the days are long, but the years are short. And I certainly am experiencing that pretty consistently. This is a big milestone.

[00:19:36] Arne Arens: Yeah. But also for the, for us as a family. And maybe I’ll just add this on because it’s a, it’s sort of an additional dimension for, for our family is when our youngest one, Ole was. Was born in 2009, about three months after he was born, we found out he had. He had cystic fibrosis, which is sort of. It’s a, it’s a genetic disease where you’re missing a certain protein that helps you, that helps you dissolve mucus in your body and mucus stays mostly in, in your lungs and that causes bacterial infections and pneumonia. And every time you have pneumonia, your lung capacity just shrinks.

Like, you know, when he was born, the average age was about 30, 35, 20 years. Before that it was 17. So it was almost like a death sentence for, for kids.

In the meantime, science has made just massive strides. So now when he was 12, so this is like four years ago, he started taking a medicine that effectively takes away all the symptoms, which is amazing. So now his, his life expectancy is almost back to normal, or pretty much back to normal. But when he was born, it was 35. So it was sort of like, you know, it was sort of like a, like a massive dark cloud sort of hung over us all the time because there was so much uncertainty around his health and how he was going to do like, even, even how he was going to do tomorrow. Right. So, and I’m telling you this because it just, it’s, it’s a, it was an added pressure in, in our family ecosystem that Katarina, then mostly Katarina had to deal with as well. And not just the, let’s say, the practical and physical side of that in terms of like he had to take medication every day, we had to do hours and hours of inhalation so he could clean out his lungs, but also the emotional toll that that took on, on her, but also on us as a family that I’m sure also has an. Had an impact on the moths. Our. Who’s our older, our older son. Right. So there was this whole sort of family dynamic around this, around this, this, this disease that, that, that he had. That was sort of an added.

Yeah. An added pressure or an added dimension that, that, that really was.

That made it a bit of a pressure cooker over, over those years. So now that was, that was a very long winded answer to your question.

[00:21:55] Kevin Rice: No, but thank you so much for sharing.

You know, I’m sure a lot of people see you and they see the titles and the awards, but we don’t really know what’s going on behind somebody’s life. And that’s a lot of pressure. I can’t imagine what it would be like to go from one of the most joyous moments in your life of having a son and then shortly thereafter realizing that he might not live a full life and just.

That’s an entire new job on top of it, understanding what this disease is. Back when there wasn’t as much research and treatments available, I’m sure you and your wife were constantly trying to figure out how can we support our son, how can we help, what is the new research? And you can’t necessarily rely on the healthcare system to do that for you, and you need to be empowered yourself. So that, that was a lot that you were, you know, carrying.

[00:22:44] Arne Arens: Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

Yeah. It was, it was a, it was a pretty big emotional, emotional load and, and then practical and physical as well. It was funny because you, you know, you mentioned in the beginning that you always have a choice, right. In terms of how you, how you deal with things in life. And early on, kids, when faced with adversity, they, they have these, they have two choices. Victims or, or resilience. I had, I’d never really thought about it that way, but at the, it was, it was, it was interesting because we, when the doctor gave us the diagnosis, this is like three months, you know, three months in, he started coughing and we’re like, what’s going on? So we had to take him into the hospital. They did. And it’s a really simple test that he, that, that you can do. So we were calling it his. Into his doctor’s office. And he’s like, I’ve got some bad news. And he’s like, yeah, he’s. He’s got. He’s got cystic fibrosis. And. And he sort of gave us the run. The rundown real quick of what that. What that meant. And we’re like. But just absolutely shocked.

And it’s funny, Katerina just absolutely blew up. Like, she, you know, she. I think she almost kicked in the door. And she’s like, what. Like, what is. Like, this is impossible. It can’t be. Can’t be happening.

And then my first question to the. To the doctor was, can he run a marathon when he’s 18 or could he run a marathon when he’s 18?

And. And he kind of looked at me weird, and he’s like, okay, out of all the things that you could say or ask right now, that is the question that you ask. But for me, there was sort of an immediate vision of like, what could be right? And could he get the other side of this in a. Health. In a healthy enough way that he can pull something off? Like, so the marathon was more like a symbol of health.

And he kind of looked at me weird, and he’s like, yeah, I don’t see why not.

If things. If things go normal, like, if things go well, then he should be. He should be able to do that. And I’m like, great.

And, you know, I’m kind of saying it in it like there was obviously a lot more. A lot more going on in that moment that. But that became such a.

A sort of vision for.

For good for me and for. And for us that we. We started organizing these. These runs and effectively through donations, people participating, we ran the New York Marathon. We organized a number of runs, kids runs in. In Amsterdam, our.

[00:25:18] Kevin Rice: Our.

[00:25:18] Arne Arens: Our hometown and collected donations and then gave that to the. The Cystic Fibrosis foundation to help contribute to research that was still going on because at that time there was nothing. And they’d been working on it for a long time, but a lot more needed. Needed to be done. So that was sort of our way of taking a little bit of agency in this. In this process and sort of channel the energy that is there. Like, energy is. Energy is there, right? And it either comes out in. In productive ways or it comes out in. In maybe destructive ways or less constructive ways. And our choice was, let’s. Let’s do it. Let’s do it this way, right? And so we did a little bit of education about. About the disease people. We had A lot of fun. Like, we had, like, the. The runs became bigger and bigger, and there were, you know, hundreds of people running around, and we had these. All these bouncy cattle, you know, kids and everything, and with their. So we had, at some point, our last one in Amsterdam. I was like. We had this massive park of bouncy castles, and it became almost like a parkour type of thing. And it was. It was amazing. And. And we, As I said, we ran New York in 2011. My dream was always, I want to run, like, that marathon. When he was 18, I want. I want to run across the finish line together with him in 2011. We sort of took a. We. We pulled that forward by, you know, by. By. He was 2. By 16 years. And I ran the last stretch of the New York marathon with him in the. In the backpack. So there’s these, you know, there’s these backpacks where kids can sit in. And I mean, I was absolutely destroyed.

And because I didn’t take care of myself during the marathon, you know, I was sort of a beginner marathon runner at the. At the time. So I made all sorts of mistakes, and I was absolutely destroyed at the finish line. Katarina was waiting there. She gave me to, you know, gave me the backpack. I ran across the finish line. I pretty much passed out. Someone else had to go get Olay and take him back to the hotel while I was in a medical tent getting, you know, getting an IV with salt and is.

So it. It was pretty crazy. But all that to say that there was this. There was this vision, right, Of. Of health and of, like, he’s gonna be. He’s gonna be okay, and we’re gonna get, like, we’re gonna. We’re gonna do this when he’s 18 and now we’re two years away, and I’m like, oh, my God, we gotta run. We gotta run another marathon. But he’s. He’s. He’s super fit. He can do it. So, yeah, you know, this is. This is. This is still the plan. So here we are.

[00:27:41] Kevin Rice: That is. I mean, your family’s such a beautiful story of resilience. And I love that you’re gonna do a marathon to celebrate his journey and his overcoming of, you know, an incredibly challenging ailment. So that’s just really special. Yeah. Like, thank you for sharing all the context and everything that goes on or, you know, what has been your life so far. Again, I just know you from being the CEO of the North Face and then board riders, and it’s great to get to Know somebody beyond the title and understand like everything that makes them a whole individual or human.

[00:28:18] Arne Arens: Yeah, I appreciate that.

[00:28:19] Kevin Rice: Yeah. So this is a big milestone for you and your family and your children. When you think about that milestone, how does it make you reflect on who you are today as a leader and a father compared to maybe those earlier years in North Face when your career was really accelerating but your kids were still young?

[00:28:38] Arne Arens: Yeah, big, big difference.

Big difference. I mean, I would say sort of if I look at the path over the last, you know, like 10 to 20 years, it’s all gone from, you know, how, like, how does this affect me and how do I show up in the best way possible, Sort of more on the person, like more on the, let’s say, individual and me centered perspective. And over the years that’s pivoted towards how can I, how can I be there and how can I show up for others so they can be the best who they can be? I think it, I, if I were to summarize sort of my personal journey over the last 20 years, I think that would be the headline. And that also reflects on, you know, how, how I, how I show up at home and how I am, how I am with the Voice, like in, in, in the beginning stages of my career. So I’m, I’m from Europe originally from, from Amsterdam, worked for Nike for, for about eight years in different spots in, in Europe.

Amongst them Frankfurt, which is our, where our boys were born. Then we moved back to Amsterdam, which is sort of our, our home base and then we moved to the US a little more than eight years ago.

When I was, when I was with. Transitioning from leading the European business at North Face to the global business at North Face.

In, in those early years, it was a lot about like, how, how do I, how do I accelerate my career and how do I advance and how do I, and how do I contribute as well. Right. But it was a lot about, like, okay, it was a lot about advancement and, and, and now it’s more about contribution and it’s more about, you know, how do I help others on, on their journey. And I’m, I think that’s, that’s, that’s definitely.

I don’t know how, how much the boys notice that and how much it’s influenced me as a, as a parent 15 years ago when they were, you know, 0 and 1 versus where they are right now, 16 and 17.

But I’m sure there’s a, I’m sure there’s a, there’s an impact of that for Them as well. Even though the criticism that I, that I get a lot of, I probably, probably can’t help myself just in terms of, you know, who I’ve, who I’ve also become. Right. And the impact that my career, career and my work has had on, on me as a person. A lot of times they’re like, you’re, you’re not the CEO of the house.

Calm down. We’re not doing it the way that you’re like, I’m like, oh, let’s do this and let’s do abc. And like this is the best way to do this. And they’re like, hold on, buddy. No, no, you’re not the CEO here.

Let, let us handle this.

You know, sometimes they really make you look into the, make you look into the mirror pretty hard and you know, seeing some of those, let’s say traits that I would associate more with the earlier career rna, right. Just being like, you know, heads like head through the wall and just, and just, and just go still shows up and, but, and then they, then you know, they, they, they, they call me out and I, I kind of, I kind of like that as well. I mean it’s, it’s, it’s pretty cool.

[00:31:41] Kevin Rice: That’s great. I wonder you became a father when you were probably start at Nike, right? And then kind of the formative years of your children’s childhood was while you were growing in your career at North Face.

[00:31:56] Arne Arens: That’s correct, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[00:31:59] Kevin Rice: When you mentioned earlier how you had made a big change about being more self centric, focusing on your career to being more maybe like of a servant leader and focusing on contribution, was there something that happened that catalyzed that shift of how you showed up as a leader?

[00:32:20] Arne Arens: I think it sort of happened, it happened over time. I, I’ve always been big on teamwork. I grew up as a volleyball player. I, you know, I, I, I play, I played at, at here at USC and then I also played professional in Europe. That’s how Katarina and I got to know each other. So volleyball’s been, and now our boys are playing volleyball and so we’re kind of full circle. We now play them on the beach. We can’t win anymore, unfortunately, but it’s, it’s been, that sport has been the great, has been a just a great uniting factor for, for us and, but also a very, very educational and developmental factor in our, in both, in, in all of our lives pretty much. If I. So the reason I say this is because growing up as a team, as a team player, I Always had a pretty, pretty broad perspective on how I felt a team could show up in the best way that they could, right? And volleyball is like the ultimate team sport. It’s, you’re, it’s not, you’re not reliant on one guy, you know, draining, draining. 50 points a game. Like every, like every, every rally effectively involves the entire team. You cannot do it like volleyball is a sport you cannot do by yourself. So it’s sort of the, the, the ultimate team sports. And I’ve always had that perspective and I’ve always led in that way. And I think over the years, the, I think also with increasing responsibility and increasing.

An increasing realization that, hey, I cannot do this by myself, right? And I need to rely and empower more people to get this done together.

Like, the bigger the jobs and the bigger the responsibility and the less I could rely on doing things myself, the more sort of ingrained that principle became in terms of, I think, you know, empowering others is the most empowering thing you can do for yourself as a leader, right? But you gotta trust. You need, you need trust in yourself and trust in others to be able to do that. And I think the groundwork for me had been laid playing this team sport when I was growing up at a competitive level.

So as I sort of move through increasing levels of responsibility, I think that whole principle of, hey, you can get more stuff done together if you, if you find the right mechanisms and if you, if you find the right buttons to push, right? And if it’s truly, if you truly empower people to give the best that they, that they can give and allow them to excel, like, then you can put the whole thing on steroids. And, and as I, and as I started to realize that that principle was true and that the scaffolding in myself, in terms of my leadership philosophy was already there. In order to make that happen, it just, it just became a very natural part of how I led and how I constructed teams and how we, and how we work together.

So, you know, I think it’s, you know, to your question, I think it just. The principle and the groundwork was there, but the, the, the step by step with increasing responsibility, that just became more ingrained and it became bigger. A bigger part of who I was as a leader and, and how I, how I worked, worked with, with teams.

[00:35:37] Kevin Rice: I mean, that’s great, right? Everybody says you can go faster alone, but you go further together. And I think sports are a great analogy of that. And if I get to run into you in person, we’ll we’ll have to go play some beach volleyball. I, I played volleyball in high school and I, I play about twice a week.

I’m sure your kids would destroy me too, but it’d be fun.

[00:35:57] Arne Arens: We could, together, we could try to take them on, see how far. See how far we get.

[00:36:01] Kevin Rice: So there we go. The old guys versus the young kids. We’ll have some experience, some tricks there.

Where you are today and having grown so much as an individual, as a leader, if you were to look back on your career, you moved pretty swiftly through the corporate ladder, specifically while you were at North Face. At the same time, I see a lot of executives who aspire to get to the C suite and they kind of stall out either at the director or VP level. Was there anything in particular that you did to help yourself continue to achieve the role that you wanted to achieve?

[00:36:38] Arne Arens: No, not really.

I mean, and that’s, that’s the simplest answer I can give. I think I’ve always operated under the.

Under. Maybe consciously or, or unconsciously under sort of the premise that I just described. And that has always been my. So I, I never really applied for the, for the next job. It just always kind of was a result from the, the, the effort and the results that I, That I came.

But it wasn’t, it was never really my single biggest focus. So in that way, maybe even from an, from an. Like, yes, I, I was more about, like how, you know, from me to. We, let’s say over, over the years. But I think there was already a large component of, hey, I’m just going to show up in the absolute best way that I can and film. Phil Knight, I think, said it well in, in.

In just do it, we said like, like success is a function of luck and hard work. And It’s. And it’s 50. 50, right? Luck is 50 and luck and timing. And I think we’ve all seen that in you. Selling your company was the result of a lot of hard work and a lot of capability that you put into it. But you also found a buyer at exactly the right moment that was willing to pay the right price. Okay, so how does that, you know what I mean? That needs to come together.

So I think it’s always a. But I think there’s, you know, the, the whole idea of serendipity and sort of, you know, influencing the amount of luck, like sort of engineering the amount of luck that you’ll. You’ll find on your, on your path by just doing, by going in with the right mindset and doing the right Things I think that is, I, I believe in that principle as well. So just. And I, and I think that’s been, that’s, that for me has a. Has, has been the mindset that I’ve operated with for the last, the last 20 years. So less focused on like what’s, what’s next. And it just kind of came, it just kind of came naturally. So to your question, I don’t think I did anything differently when I was, when I was a sales manager at Nike versus when I was, when I was, you know, the brand president at North Face. From a, from a mindset perspective, I was, you know, the same and focusing on making the biggest, the biggest possible contribution and, and is doing that with, with like wholeheartedly, like full force. Right Always. And I, I think that’s that like that’s always led to good results and a really good dose of fortune and good timing got me then, got me the next, the next thing.

[00:39:14] Kevin Rice: So yeah, I grew up with a basketball poster on my wall that said the harder you work, the luckier you get.

And I absolutely believe that that is the way this universe works. Whether you know, you believe in God or you think it’s some sort of energetic principle, like, I’ve always found that the harder I work on something, the luckier I get. It might not even be related to the thing I’m working on, but I would just find that somehow it would be paid back.

And so I think that’s a great reminder for everybody. Is that like, yeah, you, you make your luck to some extent. And when we sold Hathaway, the, the market couldn’t have been more perfect. The timing was absolutely perfect. We almost sold Hathaway a year before and the deal fell through.

And I’m really grateful that it did because ultimately we found the right partner that was just such a good cultural fit for our organization.

But the market was perfect. Private equity had a lot of money that had need to be put to work and so valuations were really strong at the time. Our outcome would have been completely different 6 months before or 6 months later. So. Totally agree. It was 13 years of incredibly hard work and then just the right amount of luck at the end to make it play out the way that it did.

[00:40:33] Arne Arens: Yeah. Good for you.

[00:40:36] Kevin Rice: Thank you.

The way you talk about the evolution of your career in leadership makes me kind of wonder if this is just the natural process of evolving as a leader. Meaning is it important to be more focused on yourself in order to get from more of a junior to mid level to an executive level. And then that’s when you make the shift to being more of a contributor.

I certainly followed that path. But I’m wondering, is that, is that the best practice? And maybe it is. Maybe earlier in your career you do need to be more focused on your own personal achievements or you’ll never get to the, to the next level up or to the C suite. So do you have any sort of advice for aspiring executives who have a lot of ambition and are trying to grow in their career?

[00:41:22] Arne Arens: I’ve, I’ve always thought that even though I do think it’s true that in the beginning, you know, as you sort of move from individual contributor to, you know, manager and executive and kind of move on from there, you kind of start with a smaller circle of influence, if you will, just naturally from where you sit in your organization, depending on big or small or what the scope is.

But I also believe that, at least that’s my philosophy, the way that you show up for your team and the way that you show up in terms of making a contribution to your team and to the organization is, is a huge factor in how fast you’re going to move on. And what I mean by that is there is, you know, there, there’s ways to contribute in, in an individual way, but you’re always part of a bigger, you’re part of bigger, you’re part of bigger team, you’re part of bigger, bigger organization. And I think my belief is if you show up as the, as a team player and you just focus on how can I make the absolute biggest contribution from where I sit and if my scope is this big or whether my scope is this big or at some point when my scope is this big, but if the mentality around how can I make the biggest potential contribution that I can possibly make at this point in my career? And from where I’m sitting, I think that is the mindset with which you’re going to, gonna go fastest.

And because then it, you sort of shift from how is this about me and how is this about my goals and how I get stuff done to how do I, how do I contribute to the bigger picture and how do I, how do I make an impact not just for myself, but for my boss, for my team, my teammates, the organization at large. And I think that that is the, I think that’s probably the biggest single thing you can do for, for the organization where, wherever you are and it’s, it’s probably going to be the way that’s going to get you, that’s going to advance you through the ranks, if that’s your goal, right. In, in the fastest, in the fastest possible way. It’s a, it’s a different, It’s a shift of mindset, right. That I, that I think is error. That it, that I think is not related to how old you are or how senior you are, but that you can already start to incorporate when you just enter the workforce. You know what I mean? Like, if how do I make the biggest potential contribution here and bring everything to the table? I think that mindset is going to get you farthest.

[00:43:53] Kevin Rice: Yeah. Now that your sons are about to head off to college, how has your kind of definition of success in life and career, how has it evolved from maybe those early days to today?

[00:44:06] Arne Arens: Yeah, I think it’s evolved in, I think in the way that I alluded to before, where the focus goes from me to we and sort of the. I’ve always had really high standards for myself and I read, I recently read the book Inner Excellence by, by Jim Murphy. Fantastic book. And a lot of sort of you mentioned Tony Robbins and some of the, and it reminded me of, of, of some of some of his thoughts and philosophies.

And it’s, he really speaks about raising your, your inner level of excellence and in order to, and, and, and, and using that to raise the, the, the, the level of inner excellence in others.

And that resonated in a huge way. And I think it really describes sort of the journey that I’ve been on myself and I’m sure, you know, many others have been on as well, where it was about how do I, how do I get from A to B fastest in the fastest way possible to now? How do I contribute to others excelling and bringing out the best in themselves and you know, developing and going and, and taking, taking themselves further. And I think that’s been, I think that’s been the big paradigm shift. And, and I, and I love that because it, and it feels, it feels right. I mean, you know, you can, you know, philosophical questions about why, you know, why are we here and what are we here to do? And I don’t think it’s about accumulating as many awards and as many titles and as many, you know, dollars for ourselves. Because you can’t, you can’t take any of that with you. Right? If you, the measure of success, in a way, and I think, you know, Clayton Christensen said that, said that really well in, in, in, in. In one of his, one of his books, like the measure, like your, your measure of success is how, how much have you contributed to others? And I think that’s super powerful and, and, and I think that that’s become more the focus over the years. I, I coach a number of, a number of folks like young entrepreneurs that are starting up their businesses, doing, doing some volunteer work. We have a little, a little brother.

I’m on the board there as well. I’m on this. I’m the chairman of this incredible organization called Sea Trees. And they’re, they’re, they’re a marine conservation nonprofit. And their, their mission is to, is to use the superpowers of the ocean to help mitigate climate change. And I, I love contributing to that organization and, and helping them get to the next level. And all those things are, you know, they’re not about me. Like, they’re, they’re about bigger things that about, they’re about, about others, they’re about the world.

And I think that’s been the shift of focus over the years, and it feels right and it feels really good.

[00:46:42] Kevin Rice: Fulfillment for me has always, or at least I guess in the last 10 years really been centered around contribution, connecting, having deep, meaningful relationships and being able to give back to the people that matter to me and to larger organizations and causes.

I certainly, I celebrate you for all that you’ve been able to do and all the people you’ve been able to help.

I’m going to close with one more question.

With your kids moving off to college, what do you hope they’ll carry with them from your family life into their independence?

[00:47:18] Arne Arens: Yeah, what a wonderful question.

I would hope that they carry with them sort of the, you know, we have, we have a. And we’ve had that on the wall for, for, for years. Sort of our family, Our family principles. It’s a, It’s a picture of Master Yoda and because he’s sort of the ultimate, the ultimate philosopher warrior for us, some of our, some of our principles around.

We, we always give it our best and we have fun in what we do, care for each other, we contribute to others and to the rest of the world.

And if they take that with them, plus sort of what they’ve seen from Katharine and myself, which is, you know, sort of the leading by example and I think you said it well a minute ago.

You know, they’ve seen what, how you could move through the world in terms of, you know, how hard you work and what, what you want to achieve, but the, the thought of not just doing it for yourself, but just making a contribution to other people and to the rest of the world. If they take that if they take those two things with them to work hard and have, and have fun and then, and then, you know, keep a bigger perspective, do it for yourself, but also make it, make a meaningful contribution to, to the world and to others, I think then we’ll have done our job.

[00:48:43] Kevin Rice: Arne, thank you so much for joining me today.

You are such a strong, powerful, steady presence. I imagine weathering a lot of the storms that your family has been through.

That steady presence really helped get through everything.

Yeah. I just want to say thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate your stories. This was a fantastic conversation. And thank you so much.

[00:49:13] Arne Arens: Kevin, thank, thank you so much for making all this happen and bringing, you know, a little bit more of this message out into the world.

I applaud you for that. I think it’s, I think it’s, I think it’s big and it’s your, it’s your way to contribute. And I, and I appreciate that. And I think you’re doing, you’re doing wonderful work. Good luck with the rest of your, of your book. And yeah, I, I hope to see you soon on the beach in Pismo or in Newport or whatever, wherever our paths will cross.

[00:49:41] Kevin Rice: That would be fantastic.

Thank you again.

[00:49:43] Arne Arens: Thank you.

[00:49:44] Kevin Rice: If you’re enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We’ve got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow, and stay tuned.