Navigating Motherhood in the Corporate World with Melissa Grady Dias

[00:00:00] Kevin Rice: Put your oxygen mask on first.

[00:00:02] Melissa Grady Dias: We don’t realize how far into the unhealthy we get ourselves because you really feel fine until you don’t.

[00:00:09] Kevin Rice: If you’re not taking care of yourself, you can’t show up for anybody else, whether it’s professionally or at home. Your family, your partner, your kids.

[00:00:16] Melissa Grady Dias: When you figure out what your priorities are and you make sure that those are taken care of, all this other stuff falls into place.

[00:00:23] Kevin Rice: There’s going to be a time where I would probably give anything to go back and be in a storm again when my kids were young.

[00:00:32] Melissa Grady Dias: You’re building your life. You’re making the decisions. It’s not happening to you.

[00:00:36] Kevin Rice: If you choose to grow through something and not go through something, that’s how you build a life. A life worth living. You are the author of your story.

Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, Parenting wins and fails and everything in between. I’m your host, Kevin Rice. Here’s today’s episode.

[00:00:58] Speaker C: We spend a lot of time talking about campaigns, corporate metrics, processes and frameworks in business. But today’s episode is about the mosaic that we create for our lives, both professionally and personally. Purpose, presence, and the small choices that paint the picture of our life. My guest today is the former CMO of Cadillac, an accomplished marketer who’s led one of the most iconic brands that’s tied to the fabric of American culture. And she’s also a new mom who’s learning to grow a career she loves while protecting the moments that matter most. We talk about the reality of maternity leave as survival mode, the ambivalence of going back to work, and why bedtime is sacred because there’s only so many bedtimes. We get into habits that keep her steady and present, from Kundalini yoga to weight training and the kind of sweat that lets buried feelings rise and release.

Melissa shares how she protects her time in high pressure environments and how she gives her teams permission to do the same. We talk purpose and leadership through the lens of survive versus thrive, including what it felt like to rally around work that truly matters.

She offers a beautiful mosaic model for brands and for life and opens up about the before and after moments. Grief, grace and building a life on purpose rather than letting life happen to you. If you’re trying to excel at work without missing the magic at home, this one’s for you.

[00:02:13] Kevin Rice: My guest today is Melissa Grady Diaz. Melissa, thank you so much for being with us today.

[00:02:19] Melissa Grady Dias: Thank you so much for having me. I’ve been really looking forward to this conversation.

[00:02:23] Kevin Rice: I’ve had a lot of fun going through some of your articles and past podcasts and you have had such an amazing career, been recognized by Adweek, covered in Forbes. Your campaigns have won Cairn’s Lion Awards. The list kind of goes on of accomplishments. Recently you led as the CMO of Cadillac, one of the most hands down iconic brands in American culture and history.

But recently your life changed pretty dramatically after becoming a mother. Can we, can we talk about that? How has becoming a parent changed the way you think about your life and your career?

[00:02:59] Melissa Grady Dias: It’s been a really interesting trajectory. I think one of the things. And my career has always been so important to me. I really love working. I’m lucky because my passion is marketing. And so that’s made my career really something that is so important and integral to who I am. And I’ve always, even before I became a mother, been a family first person. I think that family and those people who are close to us are really important. However you’re defining your family and your close friends, what was really interesting after becoming a mother is understanding, first of all, just the, the sheer clarity that I felt about priorities of what’s important. Like you can say family first. I have always believed that and would, you know, put anything aside to make sure my family was okay. But there’s just this clarity that comes. And the second thing that was so interesting to me that happened after I became a mother is I. I thought about all the women who had worked for me before and what I didn’t see that they were going through. And a few of them, I called and I just said, I just have to tell you, like, I was there when you were coming back from mat leave and going through this myself. I have this like, oh my gosh moment. And I want to thank you for how you showed up. And I just want to tell you what a superhero you are because you really start to see people from a very different perspective. It really gives you just a different way of looking at people.

[00:04:28] Kevin Rice: Yeah. I don’t know if it was like this for you, but for my partner, I don’t know if we experienced this as fathers, but for her in those first six months, like, she had a lot of those, like, intrusive thoughts of if I drop him, he will die or, you know, if I fall down the stairs, something will happen.

Yeah, it was like, I remember that being pretty intense.

[00:04:52] Melissa Grady Dias: I think all mothers go through, like, the intensity can vary, but I think all mothers, especially first time mothers, go through that.

It’s a, it’s a very crazy thing when you are holding this human being. That’s the most precious thing in the world to you, and it’s very fragile. And you know something I didn’t realize until I became a mother. I didn’t understand this, the state of their immune system and the, the amount that you had to worry. Like when my doctor told me, if your baby gets a fever over 100 degrees, you have to go to the hospital. And we spent five days in the NICU after he was born. So the thought of going to the hospital to me was like. I was like, well, and now nobody gets to see the baby. Here’s our FaceTime. Say hello. It was like, so it’s you. I feel like you just can’t understand the intensity of it until you’re going through it.

[00:05:45] Kevin Rice: Yeah. There’s a lot of physiological stuff that I want to better understand about what happens in the connection of a mother and child that as fathers we don’t experience. My, My second son, he was in the NICU only overnight, but I think that was a kind of disruptive to my ex wife because I got to see him in the NICU and I was actually the first one to hold him. She got him briefly because it was an emergency C section. So she got him brief briefly, but. But she was effectively in surgery and he was taken to the nicu. I got to be with him for a couple hours and thankfully it was only four or five hours in the nicu, but. But she didn’t get to latch, she didn’t get to breastfeed. She didn’t get that like, immediate connection.

[00:06:28] Melissa Grady Dias: It’s. It’s a very hard time.

[00:06:32] Kevin Rice: Yeah.

[00:06:32] Melissa Grady Dias: I think a lot of women, I also had a very difficult birth, labor that went way too long into a C section that was very unpleasant. And then I was on magnesium. I was on a lot of other things for several days because my, my body started getting into an infection because my water had been broken for so long. And then that turned into preeclampsia and then that turned into fetal stress. So we like immediately went into the C section.

[00:07:01] Kevin Rice: Yeah.

[00:07:01] Melissa Grady Dias: Then he was, because he’d been in distress, had to be in the nicu. And then they were worried about him getting an infection. And for the first 24 hours, we finally had to fight with someone because they’re like, you can’t get out of bed. I’m like, I need to see my baby. And it takes you a long time.

You Know you. There’s the part of you that’s like, everyone’s healthy, everything’s fine. And then there’s the part of you that just needs to allow yourself to process it. And it takes a while. You’ve got to be away from it and get to that point. But in the early days, I had a lot of trouble talking about it, and it was very difficult. I really get it.

[00:07:37] Kevin Rice: Thank you for sharing that with me. In those kind of first, you know, 90 days or so after your son was born, how did your life change? Like, what was your experience of being a new mom while leading at the top in the corporate world?

[00:07:52] Melissa Grady Dias: So the first 90 days, I was on mat leave.

[00:07:55] Kevin Rice: Good.

[00:07:56] Melissa Grady Dias: And so that was a really interesting time for me. I think the one thing that was so interesting to me is in my head before having mat leave, I thought that mat leave was going to be this time to really be able to reflect on what had happened. Maybe do some writing, do some reading. Just have, like, these moments of, like, beauty and clarity. And like, all you’re doing is, like, you are in sheer survival mode. And so that was an interesting learning, too. I was actually really looking forward to going back to work and getting some of that structure back and then as you go back into the workforce.

And I was just talking to a woman who is returning from mat leave now, and we were talking about how there’s this ambivalence and dichotomy that exists that you just have to sit with. And it’s like, I am so excited about going back to work, and I’m devastated at leaving my baby and going back to work. And those two things just have to coexist because they’re both true. And you have to give credence to each one of them. Really enabled to. To be able to move forward. And so that was a really interesting process to understand, you know, how am I going to create my boundaries? How am I going to get the fulfillment from work that I know and love?

And, you know, so it was for myself, I said a few things, like, bedtime is really important. You know, when you look at. And it’s. It’s crazy to me, the intimacy that you feel with these little human beings who depend on you so much. It’s this crazy thing. And at bedtime, when everything’s calm and you’re feeding and, you know, there’s just this moment, and I was like, this is something that is very finite. There are only so many bedtimes. And, you know, bedtime has changed a lot for us. Over the past two years, my son just turned two, but it’s still really important, like, that moment, that quiet moment. And so I really try to prioritize, and I think about, like, how many bedtimes can I be at? What does that look like? And I think understanding what’s important and how do you feel? Like, your weekends are another thing to me that I just want to be with my son and my husband. I want to have that family time on the weekend because we’re so busy during the week. And how do we create those memories? We just went to Disney, and it was like I told my husband, like, lids closed, phones down. We are like, we’re making memories. And so, like, let’s do this.

And I think when you make sure. And so far for us, I mean, we’ll. We’ll see in, you know, 10 years and 18 years how we feel. But so far, we feel like we’re putting the bounds around things to feel like we’re not missing the important things, and there will be things that we’ll miss. And everyone warns me about this. You’re just. You’re going to miss things.

But if you can make the times you’re together really important and very specific, that’s really gonna help, and it’s gonna make a difference. And so I’ve been really trying to focus on what are those things? And the other thing, I think that really helps me in the middle of a meltdown or in the middle of a sickness or something. That’s really hard remembering how much I’m going to miss these times because I already.

You know, everyone says that to you, and it’s the biggest cliche. It goes so fast as. As you’re having a child.

But it is like, I remember when my son was born, the way he used to cry sounded like a dolphin.

And it was this like. Like this visceral cry he had, and it sounded like a dolphin talking. And we were so stressed in the moment that we never recorded it.

And now we’re set. We’re like, gosh, we wish we had that moment of, like, what that sounded like. But in. In the middle of that, we were too wrapped up in it. And so I think that was just like a little mini lesson of, like, you’re gonna miss all these things as, like, much angst as you have in the moment, as hard as these things are. So sit with the moments and enjoy them while you have that.

[00:12:15] Kevin Rice: Yeah. Even the storms I often think about. There’s gonna be a time where I would probably give anything to Go back and be in a storm again when my kids were young. And so that gives you a lot of presence in the moment to be able to, like, sit with it and show up for them and hold space through the tantrum and the storm, despite how difficult it can really be like in the moment.

What did this all kind of feel like for you emotionally when you were preparing to return to work?

[00:12:47] Melissa Grady Dias: It’s funny because I think it’s been a theme with motherhood for me.

I think if you ask my mom, when I was five years old, I was very sure of myself. And like, here’s what we’re doing here. You know, like, I’m just sort of a bossier person by nature.

[00:13:08] Kevin Rice: I heard you talk about that in a podcast.

And I tend to aspiring advertising career at age 5.

[00:13:15] Melissa Grady Dias: My whole life, I knew that I wanted to be in marketing. It’s. It’s just something. And I felt in. I think I’m used to having control of situations.

Becoming a parent, there’s just. You just don’t. You. You don’t know, and you. You don’t have control. And I had my son when I was older, and it’s very interesting because I felt like. I don’t think. I feel there’s ways that you’re more prepared when you have a child, when you’re older, and there’s a lot of ways that, like, you feel like a child yourself, like, so unsure, what am I doing? What is this going to be? And I think going back to work was the same thing. I just. I felt so unsure. What is this going to look like? What am I going to feel like? Am I going to be okay? And I think I was, like, as worried about that and just unsure of what it was all going to feel like and what it was going to be. And, you know, in the end, I’m. I’m still. I’m changed, I’m evolved, but I’m still the same person, and I still love it all the same. So it’s. It’s. But it’s like a weird unsteadiness that I was not used to feeling.

[00:14:21] Kevin Rice: Yeah. And how did that translate into your career when you were adjusting back into the workplace?

[00:14:29] Melissa Grady Dias: You know, I think that it felt really good to be back.

Um, it felt really good to be stimulating my mind and being around people. And I think I was maybe more surprised by how good it felt to be back and how much I felt like me than anything.

[00:14:50] Kevin Rice: I can relate to that. I took some time off after my company sold. I went all in on Parenting, read dozens of parenting books, did a lot of inner work, reflection, journaling. But I started to notice something was missing. And as a admitted achiever personality, what I realized was I didn’t have something that I was striving for. And it can kind of get lost in the day to day of parenting is that there’s no milestones, like, meaning you don’t have some sort of quarterly target that you’re chasing after, big win or campaign that’s launching. So there’s not these metrics. And as an achiever, I was missing that and I was missing kind of the competitive angle of it. And so I’ve started to get back into some consulting and angel investing and obviously this podcast. And there was a lot of emotions of like, this feels really good to know that I’m good at something and to be able to perform in a way that I want to be able to perform. So I can relate to that.

[00:15:52] Melissa Grady Dias: Relate to everything you’ve just said.

[00:15:54] Kevin Rice: Yeah. I wanted to ask you, how do you protect the time in a high pressure environment where you have demands coming at you from all angles, top, you know, from the bottom.

[00:16:06] Speaker C: How do you protect your time to.

[00:16:07] Kevin Rice: Take care of yourself? And then as a leader, how do you encourage your teams to protect their time to take care of themselves?

[00:16:16] Melissa Grady Dias: So two very different answers to that one. For myself, what’s so interesting to me is that, you know, it feels like such a burden and it feels so hard. It’s not that much time. And so my brain tricks itself all the time into thinking like, my insomnia is so bad, I’m just gonna take that extra 10 or 15 minutes of sleep. Oh my, you know, you know, I don’t want to be tired today for this.

And so I, for myself, it’s more about me just like putting my foot down to myself and saying, you’re going to feel better if you do this. Like, you have a big presentation today, you didn’t sleep well. And I’ve done the experiment. I’m a very data experimentation type person. I’ve done the experiment. If you try to sleep 30 minutes more or if you go jump on a bike for 20 minutes because you got five minutes down and five minutes up, that 20 minutes on the bike is going to set your brain and set your body for the day in a much different way. And you know, I think one of the things that parenthood has taught me is like, it’s okay to be tired.

I didn’t, I had so little sleep. And I like, now I like, there is a Point where like when, you know, there were nights when I would get an hour and a half of sleep in three different segments, right? That’s like, that’s not okay.

The flexibility between like three 30 minutes stints of sleep and a full eight hours is a lot. And I think that like I also have to remind myself of that. So for myself, a lot of the making the time is reminding myself that like I’m going to feel better. I’m not going to like sleeping 30 minutes more than just doing something quick for my team. And I think that one of the things that helps me when I’m trying to talk myself out of things like I, I had this yesterday, I was tired, I didn’t want to go to the gym and I, I was like convincing myself that it would be better to just rest. And then I promised myself if I went to the gym I could have their protein shake afterwards because Lifetime has the best protein shakes. So I was like, okay, I’m just like, let’s go do the workout. And I actually had a really good workout and I was doing more weight than I had been doing in the couple weeks prior. And so sometimes I just need to get up and do it and remind myself because I, for me it’s too easy to, to trick myself into thinking I need rest. So like sometimes Oura ring is my worst enemy because it’s like, maybe you need to rest. I’m like, you know, maybe I do need to rest now. I just need to get out and move for my team.

It’s, it’s very different. I’m. I talk a lot about making sure that you take the time for yourself. I think that part, part for me is a feeling of guilt if I’m not tired. I think that if I’m not fully rested, I’m not going to perform as well. And I owe it to whoever to have the best presentation, meeting, whatever. I think that I owe it to other people to be somewhere 30 minutes earlier or do these things. And I think that what I try to do with the people around me, whether it’s my team or my family or whoever, is to give people permission and to remind people that it’s not selfish because that’s sort of the trap that we get in is feeling like almost like I don’t deserve this time. Well, actually like this is the most important time, so just go do it. And with my teams I like to bring a lot of evidence and fact based, evidence based research in that shows what a grateful journal will do, what breath work will do. What a little bit of physical activity will do. I’ve also been trying to listen to more podcasts and read more so that I remind myself how important it is for mental wellness, for longevity, for being healthy, to be there for my family by doing all these little things that just add up.

[00:20:24] Kevin Rice: Yeah, what you’re describing is a very kind of self actualized and transformational type of leadership. I’ve been thinking about different stages of leadership maturity from being an individual contributor, a manager, maybe a strategic leader, but really that, that understanding and care for your team and the organization as a whole, that’s what takes brands from successful to generational brands that are going to last. And carrying that into Cadillac. I’m sure that the organization left in a better way after you moved on.

[00:21:05] Melissa Grady Dias: Thank you.

[00:21:06] Kevin Rice: Speaking of leadership, how has parenting changed your thinking on leadership? Have you learned anything from being a new mom that you’ve started to think about how this translates into the workplace?

[00:21:19] Melissa Grady Dias: The things that I’m learning from being a mom are like, it’s, it’s interesting that you just really start to realize how little control you have of things, which is probably maybe a good, maybe a bad thing. I think it’s been very interesting, you know, to an example of this is I am very careful about what I eat. And in my head my son was going to have all organic raw foods and was going to eat and I was gonna, you know, it’s the palate, it’s how you train the palate. And like in my head I really believed that I could affect that.

And I’m very picky about what goes into his mouth. But like, let me tell you, there’s a lot of French toasts, which I never would have thought. Now the bread is the like hundred out of a hundred on the app of like organic best ingredients. The eggs are like, but it’s French toast. I’m like, please eat it. What can I do? And so I think understanding that, which gives you an interesting perspective of realizing that you maybe can’t control the process but, but that you have to focus more on the outcome and what am I trying to achieve? A healthy individual, like, that’s not gonna, I thought it was gonna be through step one, two, three, and it’s actually like not even numerical. It’s abc. Here we go. Like, let’s figure out. And having that flexibility and focusing on the outcome, I think is, is a good lesson for me as a human being.

[00:22:50] Kevin Rice: Yeah, we’ve probably all read the book good to great. But when I think about parenting, sometimes great is Actually the enemy or yeah, the enemy of good. Because trying to be perfect means you’re constantly going to be underperform, you’re going to never live up to your standard. And kids don’t need perfect parents. They need present parents that are trying their best, that are growing and that are there to support them in the ways that they need them.

And so thinking about the, that dichotomy in the career and workplace, striving for perfection or is it better to launch something and do something and make progress instead of trying to be perfect and falling into like analysis paralysis.

[00:23:36] Melissa Grady Dias: I’m like I said, a very data driven person. I love Emily Oster and so like parent data and all the, the research and evidence based stuff that she does. And I was in there reading about toddler eating the other day and she just has a way of bringing clarity to things. Was the first thing you’re going to need to decide is how much do you care? And I was like, okay, that’s a good like, because I think there is this, you know, you can like really try to get to this in this perfect way of what you thought or you can say, my kid’s healthy, here’s how I can help affect what I want, which is to have someone who has an expanded palate when he’s older and, and eats well and is healthy. And it was just a really good sort of.

It’s almost like a slap in the face to me of like, wake up. What are you, what are you trying to do? As I’m trying to like over manage the situation.

[00:24:35] Kevin Rice: The question I keep asking, and I think a lot of our audience is asking, is how do you grow and excel in your career while still showing up for your family?

Have you thought about that? If so, what are some of the things you’re doing that help you stay present and show up for your family while still continuing on this amazing career trajectory that you’ve been on?

[00:24:58] Melissa Grady Dias: I think you have to spend a lot more time reflecting and understanding what’s important. Something that I think I really fell into the trap of and I didn’t realize it because it’s.

I feel like I keep using the analogy of the boiling frog a lot lately, but it is like your own health and wellness is sort of like, you know, you’re very healthy, you’re this frog jumping around and all of a sudden, you know, you’re in a pot of water and it’s getting hotter and hotter. And I think that that’s something that really hit me sharply recently, is that you’ve it’s gonna be. It’s a slippery slope and it’s gonna be too easy. And you’ve gotta make sure that you’re taking care of yourself. I’ve often had the. The analogy for myself. Like, I’m like a rubber band. And when I’m like, at this, like, very low state of stretch, like, you can push me in all the ways, and I am, like, very flexible, and I’m very easy. And like, this things are great, right?

You don’t realize as you start getting stretched thinner and thinner and tighter and tighter. So sort of like the same analogy. And by the time you get here, any little thing can break you and something that was so easy for you to deal with before. And I think I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about that, because all these things are going to stretch you. What are the things that you’re going to allow to stretch you? And how are you going to make sure that you’re getting back to the state so that you have the flex?

And I think, you know, mentally and physically. And I think those two things for me are very tied together.

Making sure that I’m moving enough, I’m working out, I’m eating right, all of those things are getting me in this place so that I have the room.

And then, you know, as you think about work in your family, again, there are certain things, and it may be certain things with your family. It might be bedtime, it might be soccer games, it might be any of those things. And then there’s certain things at work, too. And I think that’s like the.

When you’re someone who’s really driven and you love work, it’s so easy. Because I think just what you were saying before work is very gratifying. You know, you, like, put effort in, you spend money on a campaign, you see results, you put your time and effort in, you see the development of your team, your brand, your product, all these things. And so it’s very easy to get into that. But that can be something that really stretches you. And you’ve got to make sure that you can still go to the soccer game and that, like, you’re still okay and you’re still healthy.

I mean, this is like the oldest saying, but I heard it the other day and it just really hit me. You know, a healthy person has a thousand dreams. An unhealthy person has one.

And I think that we don’t realize how far into the unhealthy we get ourselves, because you really kind of feel fine till you don’t and all of a sudden you realize, like, wow, I, like, need to take care of this. And so I’m trying to be more cognizant of that, because when you. When you figure out what your priorities are and you make sure that those are taken care of, all this other stuff falls into place and you feel really satisfied versus overstretched and, like, you’re about to break.

[00:28:14] Kevin Rice: Yeah. So what I’m hearing you say is put your oxygen mask on first, because if you’re not taking care of yourself, you can’t show up for anybody else, whether it’s professionally or at home. Your family, your partner, your kids.

You mentioned a few things, but what are. What are some of your routines that keep you physically, mentally, and emotionally healthy so that you can show up in those other parts of your life?

[00:28:40] Melissa Grady Dias: I love Kundalini yoga. It is like a meditation yoga. You do a lot of physical activity. And then there’s some Sanskrit mantra, which, for me, I love to meditate, but I am not someone who can just sit here and not think of anything. But when I repeat a mantra, I can really get into a really good place in my head. So for me, and it’s something that recently I’ve gotten back into my life, having Kundalini and having some sort of meditation with mantra is really important.

The other thing that is really important to me is weight training. It’s just something that all my life, I’ve really enjoyed it. And when I’m pushing myself physically and I. I do like to. I. I like cardio activities, too. I. I was a sprinter in college. So, like, I’m a, you know, fast twitch is like, go hybrid. Go hard and stop. But weight training, to me, and that feeling really helps me work through again. Like, I find that that gets me in a really good place.

The other thing, when I do things like cardio, I love soul cycle. I love different things where there’s movement, there’s music, and the movement helps get you into your body enough to free your mind to be able to have the thoughts like you. I. I can’t force myself into having realizations. It’s when I push my body that my mind releases. And then I. You know, I’ve been known to spontaneously cry in a soul cycle class later. I’m like, wow, what was happening there? I don’t even know what’s going on.

[00:30:22] Kevin Rice: That’s amazing. I mean, that’s beautiful. I had a similar routine, and I would go running. I weight train.

I play competitive sports. Well, competitive at 40, but I still play basketball. And beach volleyball.

And I find that if I’m stuck on something, whether it’s work or personal, you know, maybe it’s, you know, family or partner related. If I go for a run for an hour, it just frees my mind to just think without an agenda, without trying to fix a problem, or without trying to come to a realization.

Your brain just knows how to get there. If you give it the space and you release, you know, the endorphins to allow it to process the way it needs to process. And I’ve had so many of my career breakthroughs on runs. Go out on a run, say, you know, my, in my corporate career when I was leading the sales organization at Hathaway, we would be stuck on a pitch and trying to figure out a narrative. And I could spend four or five hours just stuck at a computer trying to research my way into finding a solution that’s not in Google. And then I go out on a run and just let my brain just process and think and new ideas would just flow in and then I would come back, sit down, and the entire pitch narrative would be just stream of consciousness. And it was just the ultimate time hack for me. But it also regulated my nervous system. I would be less nervous, I’d be less stressed going into the presentation or at work or at home. So there’s just so many benefits of taking care of yourself, you know, that’s physically, but it’s also mentally and emotionally too, because like you said, I’ll be honest, I’ve. I’ve had to pause a run before just tears streaming because something happened to me that I was able to process in that moment. Yeah. So it’s just like really taking care of yourself is so important.

[00:32:22] Melissa Grady Dias: It is amazing. I think you see it a lot in yoga classes too. Whether it’s Kundalini or other yoga, when you get into some of those deep muscles, like we hold it in our body. And when you get into the deep muscles, whether it’s running or biking or yoga or just like the emotions come out in a way that you’re able to deal with them, I think better than in a lot of different situations. It’s really a fascinating thing.

[00:32:51] Kevin Rice: Have you ever tried breathwork?

[00:32:52] Melissa Grady Dias: Yes.

[00:32:53] Kevin Rice: Breath work is where I just stream. Like you find stuff that you’re storing and holding in your body and it just, you have a total release and your tears just streaming. And then you feel amazing afterwards because you’re like, wow, like, I didn’t know I was holding that and now I can release it.

[00:33:11] Melissa Grady Dias: Breath work is One of the most fascinating things to me, I think, because we’re constantly breathing. Like, you’re not like, yeah, you’re moving, you’re eating, whatever. But, like, breathwork is something where it is crazy that something that is. You don’t think about and that you’re always doing. And then when you do these specific breathing exercises, you feel something so different, and you’re like, wow, I was breathing, but I wasn’t breathing. I wasn’t getting in. And I.

I used to make my team sometimes at the beginning of a meeting, do some breath work or do some different exercises, because sometimes you’ve just got to get someone. Someone has to force you.

[00:33:53] Kevin Rice: Yeah. What were some of your before and after moments where life changed so dramatically for you that you could never go back to the way it was after this event happened?

[00:34:04] Melissa Grady Dias: So, like, the. An early one, for me, that was a tragedy, was my first husband committed suicide. This is something that is a very defining moment into where I really think about health and mental wellness and what people are going through and what that looks like. He was a wonderful human being. I.

It’s interesting when I look at the trajectory my life was on and trying to have kids really young and what that would have looked like versus I then really threw myself into work to deal with that. Great. And so that was a moment of, like, my career became my everything in probably an unhealthy coping mechanism way. That’s. That’s one of those moments. Another moment was I decided to. And a lot of them, I guess, like, I’ll get to some. Some better ones. But, like, in another bad one, I went through a breakup and moved from Southern California back to Chicago and ended up working at Motorola. And that was a transformative time in my life. It was really wonderful and really set me up on the, like, the. Where I ended up going in my career, which then had me moving back to New York. It was. This was a funny one for me. Like I said, I work through my body to understand what’s going on in my mind. I knew I needed to take the next step in my career. And I was debating a job in Chicago or a job in New York. And I had thought I was moving back to Chicago forever. And I was debating between these two things. And so I, in something that I really miss doing, jumped in my car and just started driving for two weeks and would stop and really hike. Like, when I hike, when I’m like, especially if it’s hot and I’m in the mountains, hiking is something that really gets my Mind open. And I remember being in Arizona on this, like, very vigorous hike, and I was like, oh, my God, I’m moving back to New York. And it was like a. That’s a moment. The before and after that, moving to New York, where I then had a wonderful job at MetLife, worked with some really incredible people, met my husband, had my baby. Like, all those are, like, before and after moments of, like, things that sometimes you choose, sometimes you don’t choose, and things just change. And you look back and you’re like, wow, like, here I am. It’s like. It’s an interesting thing.

My husband and I talk about it a lot because we’ve known each other now for seven years, and things are completely different now than they were seven years ago. I think a lot of my adult life was, like, me living in a city, working, loving my job, and now I live in the suburbs. I’m always like, who am I? With my husband and my son. But, you know, we look around and we’re like, wow, we built this life. And I think that it’s important to realize you’re building your life.

You are creating, like, life isn’t something that happens to you. A lot of things happen to you. You. And you can choose how you’re going to react to those things, but you’re building your life. You’re making the decisions. It’s not happening to you. And I think that when you realize that and you take control and, like, for the good and the bad that happens, you look around and you’re like, wow, I. Like, I built this. I decided this is what I wanted, and here I am. It’s a pretty magical thing.

[00:37:27] Kevin Rice: I genuinely believe that life happens for you and not to you. And if you take the time to understand the lessons that come from challenge, even trauma, there’s something to grow from. And if you choose to grow through something and not go through something, that’s how you. That’s how you build a life.

[00:37:45] Melissa Grady Dias: Love that.

[00:37:46] Kevin Rice: A life worth living. Right? You are the author of your story.

And, yeah, there’s gonna be challenges along the way, and you’re gonna have these before and after moments, but you can’t waste.

There’s. People have talked about it, but, like, you don’t want to let a crisis opportunity pass you by because there’s. Yeah, there’s something to grow from, to learn from in everything we experience. And I wanted to just thank you for being candid about your experience with your past, your ex husband, you know, that that’s a very vulnerable story for you. To share. I, in 2020, became a single parent. I filed for divorce. And what you shared was you threw yourself into work.

I did as well. I spent the full year, 2020, just fully into work. I was trying to raise a three year old and a time like a eight week old by myself. And my only way to deal with it was to just suppress everything that was coming up for me emotionally. And I reflect on it and I think that was really me going into like robot mode because that was the only way I knew how to show up and perform. But as I think back on that time, I missed a lot. I probably wasn’t actually performing in my career as well as I thought I was. Did you have a similar experience when you were throwing yourself into work and like, what was that like? And how did you get out of it?

[00:39:07] Melissa Grady Dias: So many things there. I was very young, I was in my mid-20s. And I think that I definitely didn’t have the coping skills that I needed.

I think that it took me.

It’s interesting because I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about like the times and one of the reasons why I think that physical activity is so hard because we’re just gonna push those things down and move forward one thing after the next.

There are ways that I was very good at my job then and there are ways that like, you know, from a, from a. Getting work done. I was really getting work done from, you know, being a good leader or, you know, maybe even friend at a lot of times because I just couldn’t.

It was hard for me to connect with people. I just had a lot of fear.

Fear was there. There was this weird dichotomy of like a recklessness because I like, just didn’t care about a lot and couldn’t deal with a lot. And then a fear, a constant fear all the time and vigilance and those two things coming together. And I think it was through finally figuring out how to physically work through that.

And it’s very funny because short, like probably, you know, a couple years later or so I started getting into fitness competitions, which was like. And I loved that time of my life and I loved that community. I think there’s definitely parts of it that are on the fringe of things. But in general, just being with a lot of people who want to be healthy and who like, are like working through a lot physically was really good. And that became a very good outlet for me. And it became when I learned that I could get into those parts of my body, I could get into those things that like, even in therapy. And I think therapy is so important. I love being in therapy, but sometimes I just physically need to work through something. So I learned so much when I started coming out of it and getting back into a healthier place.

And I think that also coming out of it, the. The empathy and understanding that I have for other people and like, just the over time, it took me a lot of time, but having sort of that same empath for myself, giving my. Forgiving myself and giving myself grace for, you know, how I did or didn’t deal with things is. Is a really important thing to go through.

[00:41:51] Kevin Rice: Same. Yeah, I’ve had to forgive myself for a lot and give myself grace because I was going through a lot. I didn’t have a playbook. There was nobody mentoring me or coaching me on how to deal with this stuff, and I wasn’t emotionally prepared for what I was going through. When we first talked, you shared a kind of analogy about a mosaic and how you see your professional and your personal life as more of a mosaic. Can you share that with our listeners and kind of how, you know, you see the mosaic of your life playing out?

[00:42:21] Melissa Grady Dias: Yeah, it’s. I’ve been weirdly fascinated with this analogy of a picture mosaic and what that means from a human being and from a brand standpoint. Like, this is where I’m really. That’s where the analogy started. But I think it really worked well with people, too.

I think that we focus so much on singular things, singular moments. And we really, as people and as brands are this whole web of things put together that creates who we are. And I think as a human, you’ve got to really think about, you know, here I am as a mother, here I am as, you know, a CMO who’s won awards. Here I am as a leader, here I am as a sister, as an aunt, as like, you know, who do I want to be and what does that picture look like? And that picture is like a mosaic. It’s one of those things where you have a thousand pictures that look completely different, but they create one picture that you’re projecting out to the world. And I think you have to really think about what are all the little moments that are going to create this picture that you want to be.

And I think about it a lot from a brand perspective, because I think when we think about marketing, we think about a commercial, we think about a campaign, we think about, you know, and when you think about a campaign, you think about matching luggage, right? Like, what is. How does this all look the same everywhere but brands really operate like people. I think it’s very interesting.

I think companies have DNA. And if you look at Cadillac’s DNA, it’s really a bold innovator with amazing style and technology, and it creates this picture. And that’s who Cadillac has been throughout time. You think about some other companies who like their DNA was so strong that they weren’t able to change and morph into what they needed to be for the future. When you think about a brand like a person, understand a campaign is a really important, important, like part of the, the picture that you’re trying to create for that brand, but it’s every single moment that you create. So I think about, you know, with Cadillac, something that was very interesting is a lot of people would say, I listened to your podcast, I heard you on Bethany. And then I was at the US Open and I walked through and I saw the Cadillac display and then I saw your commercial. And then like, it creates this web, right? And that, that full web, the full picture is what really matters. And if you just have a moment here and a moment there, or you’re not orchestrating what that mosaic is, then you’re missing the big picture.

[00:44:59] Kevin Rice: Yeah, I think that’s really great career advice too. When you think about your own professional, personal brand and how you communicate yourself to the corporate environment, whether you’re moving up the ladder and you’re current company or you’re looking to move up the ladder in a different company, building your professional brand as a mosaic is really a great way of thinking about it. And we have a lot of listeners who are kind of aspiring executives who are maybe a little bit earlier in their career and they’re looking at somebody like you, who’s had this amazing career, worked for literally like dream brands. Do you have any sort of advice for them as they are moving their way up the corporate ladder?

[00:45:46] Melissa Grady Dias: I think one of the most important things, and I’m going to say it like a few ways to try to be clear, because I think there’s too much jargon in it. Having passion or purpose is really important. And you know, I started earlier talking about how I’m weirdly passionate about marketing. So that has driven me. It really helps me in what I want to do, and I’m very lucky about that.

I think the word purpose gets overused a lot.

So I’ll give an example on. I think that something that’s really important for us to understand, especially as leaders, but really as human beings. Probably around a year ago or so, I did some training and the Training was on this archetype of survive versus thrive. Survival is when we’re, like, constantly coming from the amygdala. We’re in this fight or flight, cortisol levels are high, nobody’s happy. It’s very stressful.

When you’re in thrive, it’s also very fast. But think of a flywheel. Think about, like, when all the energy and momentum is going. And I think we all recognize survival, right? We know when we’ve been in those survival modes, when you’re about to break, whether you’re the frog, whether you’re the rubber band, whatever it is, we know what that feels like.

What was so interesting to me when I. And this is how I. I really. If I had to define purpose, was that if I think back to Covid early Covid March, April, Covid times, and if you think about the fear we all felt, are our families going to be safe? Are we going to be okay? What’s the world going to look like? At gm, we were not producing vehicles. We had all these programs to try to get the vehicles to the essential workers and the only people who were driving who might have been in a situation if their car’s not working, and now public transportation feels dangerous or what. There was this time we started making ventilators, right? Every day, showing up to work, everyone had purpose. Everyone was like, how am I going to help today? What are we doing? Tell me where we’re going.

And it was pure thrive.

And when I think about that, I think it’s really important for us as human beings to find out what is our purpose, what drives us. And it doesn’t have to be to save the world. It doesn’t have to be something like you. I love, like, a great statistical modeling exercise that gives me purpose. Like, great. What am I going to. Kind of what we were saying earlier is, you know, in a career, when you’re looking at metrics, when you’re doing things, if you’re finding whatever you’re finding that satisfaction from, figure that out, because that’s gonna put you in thrive and that’s you’re in a healthier place and you’re gonna be able to work harder and smarter and prioritize when you’re in that place as a leader, understanding that and setting a goal and a purpose, giving people inspiration and a vision to drive to, is going to change the way that your organization works versus if you’re like, you better make this. We’ve got to blah, blah, blah. No, it’s like, hey, guys, if we can do this. Can you imagine what we could achieve?

And so I think that’s just something that’s so important as humans to understand as individuals. What is it that’s driving us as leaders? What’s going to drive our teams? And I think that’s probably, I think, one of the most important things, like, figure out what it is that drives you. It might be something that is like trying to save the world. And it might be something that’s like, wow, I’m going to build the best statistical model to solve, like, how we solve this business problem.

[00:49:26] Kevin Rice: Sure. Yeah.

I struggled with this for a little while in my career because our consultancy was primarily working with the restaurant industry. And the pessimistic side of me felt like our only purpose was to help people get their cheeseburgers and fries and hot wings easier throughout mobile ordering. And loyalty.

Over time, as I evolved as a leader, I found a deeper purpose which was much more fulfilling. And that was how I was leading, coaching, and mentoring our team and then also seeing how our clients were advancing in their careers. And I love to see we’d be working with the director and they get promoted to vp. And that, like, was something that really lit me up. What would you say to somebody who maybe is in a role that’s fine. It pays their bills. They want to advance, but they can’t find purpose in their current role?

[00:50:22] Melissa Grady Dias: I think that you have to probably listening to this podcast, listening to other people, I think that you have to really think about how to define or redefine purpose. And there are exercises you can go through. There are great programs that you can go into where you’ll dig deep and. And you can get to understanding what drives you. I think if you do the exercise and think back to, like, when are the times that I really felt energized? What was I doing? When are some of the moments when I was the most proud? On the flip side of that, when are the times when I hated going into the office every day? When are the times when I felt like, oh, just like, you know, okay, fire me. Right. Like, it’s like if you look at those things, you can start to understand and see what the similarities are.

And sometimes you just have to try some different things on, like, sign up for. If you think something might be interesting to you, sign up for an extra assignment. Go shadow someone.

Figure out, you know, and live the day in the life of. And see if something is new and exciting to you, that that makes you feel different.

[00:51:33] Kevin Rice: Yeah.

[00:51:33] Melissa Grady Dias: And you learn as much from the things that you don’t like as you do.

[00:51:37] Kevin Rice: Absolutely. When you kind of going back to this Mosaic concept, when you think about the legacy you want to leave the mosaic you want to create both professionally and personally, what do you hope that Mosaic looks like and what do you hope it says about you?

[00:51:52] Melissa Grady Dias: I think one of the most important things I, you know, I talk a lot, a lot about people being their most inspirational and aspirational selves. It worked very well when I was at Cadillac because, you know, Cadillac, we have the tagline be iconic. And it really is like Cadillac is about achieving your dreams. But I want to be remembered as someone who helped people dig into who they are and what their journey is and what their path is and did help them to become better employees, leaders, members of their family, like humans, whoever they wanted to be, and helped make them feel better about themselves. I think that’s really what’s important to me.

[00:52:38] Kevin Rice: That’s amazing. I would love to work for you someday. Melissa, thank you so much for joining me today. You’re such a wonderful and thoughtful and caring person. You’re an amazing, accomplished leader, and I just really appreciate how you shared your personal story of becoming a mother and going navigating your career with us today. I loved, you know, thinking about professional and personal life as a Mosaic. So just thank you so much for being with us today.

[00:53:09] Melissa Grady Dias: Thank you so much for having me. I loved hearing your insights as well and having the conversation.

[00:53:14] Kevin Rice: If you’re enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We’ve got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow, and stay tuned.