The Secret Ingredient in Thomas Odermatt’s Family Recipes

[00:00:00] Thomas Odermatt: What do you stand for? What do you want the company to stand for?

[00:00:04] Kevin Rice: You grew up in Switzerland and in your family’s butcher shop.

[00:00:08] Thomas Odermatt: Everything is hands on and really hard work but yet family value at greatest.

[00:00:15] Kevin Rice: How did that upbringing shape the man, the father, the leader that you are today?

[00:00:21] Thomas Odermatt: Do it because you have some sort of a love admiration for it. Do it for a reason of purpose.

[00:00:27] Kevin Rice: How did your ability to show up in your business change when your family life changed?

[00:00:33] Thomas Odermatt: The first 20 months was hard. It was really hard because oftentimes you have to get up co parenting, get up in the middle of the night, think my horns fell off my head. So I was not the devil anymore.

[00:00:48] Kevin Rice: 23 years in. What do you hope the next 10, 10, 20 years for this company?

[00:00:53] Thomas Odermatt: Looks like we are growing right now at 50% year over year.

I fully understand this takes a toll on the pit. Sometimes it hurts, you get a little bruise, but you know what? Just do it.

[00:01:07] Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails and everything in between. I’m your host, Kevin Rice. Here’s today’s episode.

Welcome back to CEOs and ABCs. Today’s episode is about craft and family and the rituals that hold both together. Thomas Ottermat is the CEO and founder behind Rolly Roti and Butcher’s bone broth, a 23 year journey that’s still run with a startup mindset. The company is scaling fast with roughly 50% year over year growth fueled by product obsession, humble confidence and a culture where people rise from the cutting table to the leadership table.

In this episode, we get into the real story behind that growth. Thomas shares how a childhood inside his family’s Swiss butcher shop shaped his work ethic and values. How fatherhood softened the horns and made him a more empathetic leader. Why he runs the company like a family with transparency on results and a belief that you win. With honey not vinegar. We talk about the Swiss army lesson that changed how he leads. The simple home rituals that keep his family connected and the cast iron pan he plans to give his daughter as a lifelong anchor of independence and purpose.

If you’re building a company or leading a team or trying to grow your career without losing your family in the process, this conversation’s for you. Thomas. Thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:02:23] Thomas Odermatt: Thank you, Kevin. I appreciate you getting me online here.

[00:02:27] Kevin Rice: So I know you grew up in Switzerland and you grew up in your family’s butcher shop. What are some of your earliest memories of that space with your mother and father. And how did that upbringing shape the man, the father, the leader that you are today?

[00:02:44] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, I think I have to tell a lot about that.

So not only did I grew up in a butcher shop, I also grew up with four brothers and four sisters. And I’m the second youngest.

And what really shaped us is we are an entrepreneurial minded business, entrepreneurial minded family. And what is the nicest thing about it is that I really get along and they get along with me as well. So we are very close together. And that’s to be really credited to my parents. My parents run the butcher shop.

We lived in the butcher shop.

Yeah, some of them are way older than me, but we all have memories of each other. What matters really was that my parents set us to work within a family’s business. We’re a third generation butcher.

To give you a little perspective, we actually grew up about an hour and 20 minutes north of Milano, Italy, but really central in the Bunis, I call it the mountains. But then my parents moved to the Zurich area where economic prosperity were much greater than where we originally from in the Alps.

And again those are moves to really build the family, to get us all together to work together. And that shaped me very early on where I worked in the shop, where I worked, all kinds of positions before school, after school. And that shaped me, I must say.

[00:04:30] Kevin Rice: I assume it shaped kind of your work ethic and your drive to create something later in life.

[00:04:38] Thomas Odermatt: Correct. So my work ethic was definitely shapen by my parents, but also by my siblings were my brothers. Yeah, oh yeah, no mercy there. They were tough as nail.

But today I feel like I’m so great grateful for that, that, you know, I didn’t become a flake.

I became the person of old school memory, old school teaching the craft. I went to study organic farming where two other brothers took over the family’s business. And that definitely shaped my experience to grow up in a butcher shop where everything is hands on and really hard work. But yet family value at greatest. Dinner together, lunch together, breakfast. Some people got up early, some people not. So that’s like really incredible. Tell you that I’m still practicing that dinner ritual with my family today. I have a daughter here in the United States, precisely in Berkeley. She’s turning 17.

And we, we absolutely have to have Tinder together as a family. And that’s where I draw from my past.

[00:06:03] Kevin Rice: What, what lessons or values did you learn from your parents that you’re now trying to pass down to Your own daughter?

[00:06:09] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah. Always be in the lookout for what you can do. Don’t do it because of financial purpose. Do it because you have some sort of a love admiration for it.

Do it for a reason of purpose. And I want nothing more to my family, my daughter, and anybody out there to really drive and teach the kids the purpose. What is the purpose of what you do? I give you a small little example. I am thinking, what happened to me as a father when my daughter goes to college in the United States? What is it that I can give her?

What makes her independent and what helped me to become that independent?

So I am going to give my daughter a cast iron pan.

Why a cast iron pan?

The cast iron pan never breaks. It is a gift for life.

The older that pan is, the better the pan becomes, the greater the food is. And that pan can tell the story. And that’s exactly how I got sent off. I have a pan in my pantry that is at least 35 years old and that pan is with me for life.

And that pan shaped me. That pan gave me that backbone. That pan gave me. Hey, I am. I am now independent and I can cook for myself.

And I don’t need to worry about the pan to go broke because that pan is always here. And the older pan is, the more I am admiring the pan.

So this is what my parents did. My parents sent me off not with tears, but with joy to life. Do something that you have fun with. Do something with purpose and quite frankly, be nice. I need to be that way. I need to be humble and kind.

And I also drive myself humble and confident.

I am trying to be very confident, but for my daughter, it has to be humble and kind.

And that’s what shaped me in my early way in the butcher shop.

[00:08:44] Kevin Rice: That’s a beautiful analogy for life, the pan of handing over a gift that gets better with age. And I can see how your daughter being able to take that with her. It’s a reminder of the values she grew up with and how to carry herself through the rest of her life as she goes off on her of next journey of independence.

And when you think about her leaving, because I. I have. My oldest is nine and so I can’t even fathom the idea of him leaving the house yet. But what is, what does that bring up for you when you’ve raised a daughter for the last 17 years and now she’s about to embark on her adult life? Like, what kind of emotions or feelings does that bring up for you?

[00:09:26] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, I think from day one, I know @ one point she will be moving out. And I took the best out of it.

And I believe I was a good father despite I’m an entrepreneur, despite I work extreme hours, despite I have oftentimes stress.

But I think there are values that really drive me. That humble and kind of. That humble and kind was really that 17 year of joining with her side by side.

There’s also one thing that I selfishly do and.

And that’s a little bit unheard. If maybe I take long vacations, I say to myself, I am here for you folks for six weeks a year. Yeah, I sometimes call that also the relocated office.

But I make it in a way that either I get up really early, sneak out of the room and work a little bit, but I’m still here for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Try not to take phone calls during that time.

But I think to go back to your original question, I understand it can be something you don’t even have time to think.

He’s only nine.

Don’t talk to me about that. 17, 18 years when they’re leaving house. I get it. I totally get it. And you will grow into it. Same as my parents did. Same as your parents did. It’s a fact.

[00:11:06] Kevin Rice: Hi, Kevin here. If you’re enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who’s working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I’d really love it if you could share this episode with them. It’s one of the best ways you can help help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they’re proud of without missing the moments that matter most.

When your daughter was born, your business had been around for about eight years. How did your ability to show up in your business change when your family life changed and you have this major life event?

[00:11:39] Thomas Odermatt: I was very lucky that within the first six, seven, eight years, my business was fairly mature. It required me to work, but it’s set, it’s on the rails, it’s moving, it gives me revenue, gives me money to live.

And I could focus on building a family alongside the business. It did change the Dynamics. The first 20 months was hard.

It was really hard because oftentimes you have to get up, co parenting, get up in the middle of the night and an end.

And I think those moments are tough, shapes you, but they’re so rewarding. But in a way that cemented us as a family, as entrepreneurs. We’re resilient. We’re really tough people. We’re tough as nails. We don’t get shaken up by that Little screaming child there. We just go for it and incorporate them as much as we can.

And I think that’s what made, made me to go further and I’m blasting all the levels I can.

[00:12:53] Kevin Rice: How did your routines have to change or how did your priorities have to change in those kind of first few years after your daughter was born?

[00:13:03] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, my days didn’t start extremely early at those days, so I had the 6 o’ clock in the office, the 5 o’ clock in the office, they stopped right there.

My Saturday, Sunday work stopped right there. So I really had to focus on that Monday to Friday work, but full speed. Oftentimes take a little homework, take a little work home and really go through that motion as well.

[00:13:31] Kevin Rice: What about like, how did you grow as you became a parent and over those first few years, how did that change you or evolve you as a leader, tying it back to your career and building your company?

[00:13:45] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, I think, you know, that’s a good question. The first eight years I was tough. I almost could call myself a little nasty. I just wanted the way I wanted it and I went full speed for it. And oftentimes I was wrong. But when my daughter was born, I think my horns fell off my head. So I was not the devil anymore. I became more relaxed, I became very much understanding.

And as I get older, I become even more understanding. I become gentler, I become more knowing. I’m becoming the good cop in the company and I think the good cop in the family life is also a good position to be in.

So I, I would say in hindsight, without a child, I think it would have been different.

I think I probably would not have that work life balance or I would have to learn it in another way.

[00:14:46] Kevin Rice: Yeah, I’m sure the universe would have sent you some other way to learn that lesson.

[00:14:51] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, probably.

[00:14:54] Kevin Rice: It’s interesting, you talk about evolving into having more understanding and more empathy in your career. I think there’s this stigma that in corporate America you have to be cutthroat to succeed. But it sounds like the way you approach leadership is much more caring and empathetic and connected with your teams. How did your parents and how do you protect time for family? Like, what rituals kept you guys connected through all of the busyness?

[00:15:27] Thomas Odermatt: Vacation.

A single moment of that vacation. My parents took vacation in the summer for four weeks. We closed the shop and that’s the norm. We closed the shop. Switzerland almost watches a little bit. Italy, that Ferragosto, that whole August is closed.

I think that’s the difference. And I think My parents had really planned this out in the summer. We’re closed in the summer is family time.

It is slow.

We can afford it to close for four weeks.

I really wish I could do that here too. But here in the United States it is different. It’s if you’re in the CPG business, which I am today with the bone broth, I cannot not ship for four weeks and know that I’m be back for another round of 11 months.

It wouldn’t be possible here in the United States for cost structure for retail, how retailers work or a restaurant. You close a restaurant for a month, well, you better have a really good marketing agency and a PR agency to tell the people, hey, he’s open again.

But I think that’s the difference.

I’m fortunate to grew up in an environment that my parents cared about the family.

They cared about elements of what makes the family run. We also Sunday morning breakfast.

Sunday morning was brunch time. It was a memory that I never will forget. It’s just we all are there. We’re all there for each other and we talk about anything.

[00:17:27] Kevin Rice: It seems like family meals were really central to your heritage.

What do dinners look like in your home now? Are you passing that tradition forward with your own family?

[00:17:37] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah.

So dinner is family ritual.

Most of the time I cook with my wife Yumi. We cook together. We make simple, easy food. Nothing complicated. We really have time for us now. Selfishly, I also can tell you I don’t have a TV at my house. So it’s just I don’t have a desire for a tv. Not that I don’t like certain shows, but I just don’t have the desire.

And so that really that focuses that family, that conversation. How was your school?

How are your friends? Have you had a good time during lunch? Or do you have time so you’re downloading each other? You download events, what happened and those events, sometimes they need a little bit tweak, little bit fine tuned. You might can do that tomorrow or you might should do that.

As adults we have the responsibility, no matter how busy we are in our business, to guide the kids to tell them what they should do during a school event.

So because tomorrow morning I will send her off to school and I just have to basically make sure that when she leaves the house or I bring her to school, it’s all about humble and kind.

[00:19:05] Kevin Rice: I’ve recently read an article where you talked about really trusting your teams and empowering your teams. Can you kind of describe how you see your role as a CEO of Roli Roti.

[00:19:16] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah.

I’m very friendly with all my team members. I’m also firm with all my team members. But I think there’s a saying, and I think we should not forget about it.

The saying is actually you win with honey and not with vinegar.

And I strongly believe in that. The honey is not always necessary because the honey should be the norm. This is how we treat each other. This is how we work.

And I want to lead as a family. I want to lead as a father. I want to lead as a family’s business. And everyone here at Roli is family.

I give up shares. I want them to drive. I want them to buy a house. I want them to have vacation.

I want them to be everything.

And I’m trying to have them entrepreneurial thinking.

And this is how give the people perspective. Nobody shows up to say, I signed up for this company to be a lazy person. No, no, people don’t do that.

People have more respect than that. But people want it to be also respected so that they can drive.

I have a person who started with me over 10 years ago, and she was a meat cutter. And I hired her as a meat cutter. And I thought, not like, I would cut, maybe I’m way too fast, but I tuned myself down. But something changed that person four days in. It was basically faster than me cutting meat. And I couldn’t believe in that.

What happened is. I ask what happened?

I like the job. And I watched YouTube. Oh, okay.

Today, she’s number three in the company.

She drives. She knows where she wants to go. Isn’t that the most beautiful thing?

That’s what I’m.

I want that. I want people to come here to Roli and really drive.

Because I was driving back home because my parents gave me the perspective to drive.

[00:21:44] Kevin Rice: Giving somebody opportunities for career advancement within the same company seems like it’s really rare today.

Everybody I know that moves up in their career, they do it by leaving and going to another company to get a promotion. That seems like something that’s different about your company in your eyes. Like, what does make Rolli Roti different? And what are some lessons you could share with other leaders who are building something that they’re really passionate about.

[00:22:11] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah.

I think the most important thing for us at Rolli is value.

What are the values? How are we determine the values? Like, for instance, humble confidence is one of the most important value we have.

We need to be humble, but we need to be confident in what we do.

I also have a saying, and that comes from my farming background. My Good lord, I know a bull. So what I said to myself is the way I want the business to be driving and I want the value to be how I am is grab the bull by the horn.

So what? We’re not reactive, we’re proactive. When we face a challenge and an opportunity, we run towards them and not away.

And I think that as a leader shows to all our other people is that we are really serious about it. We want that to be driving towards.

I also think what’s very other strong value we have is less is more.

We don’t need to be the biggest company, we don’t need to be the greatest company.

But we need to be driving towards less is more. Sometimes it hurts. Say bye to your most loved customer.

But if it does make sense for your business, you have to be confident in what you do. Less is more oftentimes drives you very strongly. Lastly also our people, you know, we value our people. We must value our people.

And frankly, yes, I want to be the company known to have a good time at work.

They demanding. But I want the people to stay here for as long as they can.

Bottom line, I run in a mindset still like in Switzerland. I adapted to the American mentality. But I want the people to have four weeks vacation. I want the people to get health insurance. I want the people to get a retirement retirement fund. I want everything what I have learned back home. Because back in our business we had long term employment shape here at Rolly, I have long term employment shape at the office.

We have, we have an average of seven, eight years. And why is that?

In the food business in America where people come and go, I get it, I totally get it.

But that value to the people, that humble confidence, that drive, that’s what is very important.

And exactly all those values, I bring them home.

Those are my values. Those are who I am as a human.

[00:25:19] Kevin Rice: So those sound like a lot of things that make your organization different. And they are genuinely unique.

The resilience, the drive, the taking care of your employees, empowering them.

How much of that comes from your time that you spent in the Swiss army?

[00:25:38] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, that’s a good one. I was not the biggest fan of that club.

But today I believe totally different. I think it really, really, really grounded me.

It helped me. And the camaraderie, I will never forget that that single camaraderie is exactly what is now instilled at Rollie. My 20 peers, almost about 30 peers in the same. I don’t even know how you call it one English. But in Our group by the Bull Valley, we probably were not the most sportive, the the best performer in sport, but yet we had a leader.

And that leader was so strong in leading us and guiding us, nourishing us, caring about us, to a level of which when we had to walk 20 kilometers, 12 to 50 miles, when we had to walk side by side, full pack with the Swiss gun tossed, he never walked forward. He always walked backward.

He always walked backward. And I asked him personally too, Martin, why are you walking backward? Isn’t life easier to walk forward? He says it will be much easier. But here is what I am signed up for. I signed up to care about you guys. I sign up to perform with you guys side by side. I tell you where we going, but I make sure that I see everyone’s face to make sure that you guys are okay.

That’s the moment that I knew we’re in good hands. He cares about us, he wants us to drive.

And the result is we went above and beyond for him.

We were consistently the leading team.

You know, they have about eight, nine teams against each other and every team wants to be better and more performance and powerful. We didn’t need it to be the best, but by naturally we became the best team because we had a leader who cared about us.

And Rolly Roddy is exactly the same thing. When we have a company party, when we have a barbecue, I am not going to serve myself first, I’m going to be the last.

Making sure everybody has food. I also go on grill because it’s my responsibility to make sure that I take care. That one moment, that one day a month that they get fed by me, I cook for.

And I think it’s first of all, I show that to my family that I care about my team.

It is very, very important that we do that.

This is the same thing, what we did back home. My father cared for us, cared for the employees, cared for the staff.

No matter.

[00:29:01] Kevin Rice: I can’t imagine how your parents were able to manage so many children running a business. It’s long hours managing a company and then for you today, being a CEO also means long hours, weekend events. How did things evolve for you over the years where in the early days it was very much a startup and that pace that the motions can feel very different than in an established company.

How did the company evolve and how did you have to evolve as the company grew?

[00:29:38] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, you know, Kevin, I am 100% convinced that I am still a startup company. Despite the company’s 23 year old.

We are thinking Very, very young. We are thinking very entrepreneurial, make a thousand mistakes, don’t worry about it, just don’t make it twice.

Those are the mentality. And I think the key is to be an established company with the entrepreneurial mindset. Entrepreneurial spirit, a startup spirit where.

No, no question is a bad question.

Let’s try it. That’s a good question. I like that.

That drives, that gives drive, that gets, that gives you that adrenaline. And as a leader, you want to see that spirit, that adrenaline, that, that pivot, that motion, that craziness.

And yet that craziness is exactly that cement. It cements people together 23 years in.

[00:30:49] Kevin Rice: What do you hope the next 10, 20 years for this company?

[00:30:53] Thomas Odermatt: Looks like we are growing right now at 50% year over year.

I fully understand this takes a toll on the people.

Some people are tired, some people are so charged with coffee that they go through it with jet fuel all day long. I don’t have a mentality to sell. My mentality to sell is a delayed decision.

I’m not thinking right now about that. I have other things to think. And what makes us different is that we really drive that quality. That notion of quality, that craziness. That product is so unique and so different that you almost never seen it yet. It’s old school.

Bone broth should be jiggling. So I am driving towards that. Where do I want to be again?

I don’t want to sell because I don’t want to hurt my team members.

They will make money, but it also, I have to tell them then, hey, you now have to work for a different company, for a different bigger company possibly. And Thomas is no longer here.

I don’t think I’m ready for that.

So therefore I think I want to grow it to a level that when we sell that they are not financially hurting.

That’s my responsibility.

And financially hurting can only be with a bigger company. So my company is here to build culture. We want culture.

Culture first.

Team members first.

The growth is here for us.

We are the category leader in fresh bone broth. That’s a lock.

But we drive towards that.

We really drive that difference that we care about our customer. We care about gut health, we care about protein, collagen.

Those are all products we make.

But ultimately the product is only as good because I care about. We care about the team members who make their product.

Sometimes I’m asleep and they work.

You have to understand that’s amazing.

And I have the biggest respect for people who are working overnight.

And I don’t get a Phone call. My leaders don’t get a phone call.

We made something. Right. And selling that to a bigger company, unfortunately, I’m not ready yet.

[00:33:43] Kevin Rice: Yeah, I think a lot of people, that’s what they build for, is for the ultimate sale. And that’s the big win. That’s the big celebration.

So if that’s not on the roadmap, then how do you celebrate? Maybe the small wins along the way?

[00:33:59] Thomas Odermatt: Yeah, we celebrate with transparency.

We tell everybody in our team where we are financially, where we are revenue wise.

We educate towards. What does an EBITDA mean for you? What does an EBITDA mean for the company? We’re extremely, extremely transparent and open.

On the financial sides, there’s some taboo. What’s the salary of that guy? No, no, no, no, no. We’re not talking about that.

You can be that guy, but you have to work hard.

You have to make sure that you are stepping yourself to that level. Look, Peggy, meat cutter number three. Look, Chris Logistic guy, chief of staff. They made it. They are going that path. And I think that’s where I really, really drive towards.

[00:34:55] Kevin Rice: You’ve built an amazing company and even more so, an amazing culture within the organization.

There’s a lot of our listeners who aspire to build something that they’re passionate about. How have you kept or how have you gotten your daughter involved in your company, or have you been able to get her involved in the business?

[00:35:17] Thomas Odermatt: That’s a very good question.

I do not force my business on her. I don’t believe in that.

If she wants to come into my business, door is open. We will put her in a training program like everybody else. There’s no difference what will give her perspectives. Yeah, maybe she’s on a fast track.

Talk about that. But there is no difference between a person who’s looking for a job, an immigrant who wants to work because he wants to feed his family, and my own daughter. They all go to the same training, and they all will learn what I have to tell them, what my team has to tell them.

Now, my daughter, she may want to join my team, my company.

I’m more than happy to have her here. I wouldn’t say no.

There are a few things that are clear in our business. Of course, the expectation from me to her is, hey, you way younger. You can bring more technology. You know more about the technology because you grew up with that.

I grew into it, but I didn’t grow up with technology.

So those are the level where she can be way better than I ever will be.

And I think that’s where she can contribute to the business.

And anybody out there who wants to contribute to business, we take them with open arms.

We will put them into the motion. There’s no freebie in life. You have to work for it.

[00:37:11] Kevin Rice: Has she come with you to any events or have you been able to at least just bring her into. Maybe not an official capacity, but like, bring her into the experience of the company that you’re building?

[00:37:24] Thomas Odermatt: Absolutely. The events, for sure. Oftentimes we go to the farmer’s market where we have a Roliri food truck. You know, those people work very hard when you see them. You have to be respectful and kind to my team members. And the same thing when she comes to our office, she has to make sure that first of all, you say thank you and you say, hi, good morning to everyone. And there’s no such kind of thing of. I am the daughter of Thomas. No, no, no, no, no.

No way, no way.

[00:38:00] Kevin Rice: But I think a lot of people, myself included, I did struggle with how you can lead and grow in your career when you. Without sacrificing your family life. Do you have any advice or suggestions for people who are wrestling with that kind of tug of war of career and family life?

[00:38:19] Thomas Odermatt: Yes, I do have an advice.

I never thought it was that important, but today I’m a firm believer.

Please go ahead and write your own value.

What do you stand for? What do you want the company to stand for?

And how do you want to message that to your customer?

That gives you an extreme clarity, gives you an extreme strong.

Because you know your value and don’t mimic somebody else’s value.

For instance. Yeah, you might find it’s funny. Grab the bull by the horn.

The way that grabbed the bull by the horn is. Yeah, I’m a farmer. I know that bull has two horns. I don’t want to be speared by that bull. But it’s very, very, very driven by who I am as a person. I don’t like somebody chewing up my people.

I don’t like to chew up the people. I’m firm about it, but I think that’s what is my.

That is my value.

And value has driven me to the level where I can confidently build a company, can confidently stand in front of people and making sure they really understand. And I think that’s what I would say to any entrepreneur. Also, another thing is think about that Swiss army experience. I had a hundred people walk this direction.

Me as a leader, I now walk the other direction. Why I care about my people.

I want to see how they feel I’m very friendly with my people. I want to make sure they are okay. I want to make sure they’re driving because one of the saying I have if they come in healthy in the morning, they must go healthy home.

[00:40:29] Kevin Rice: Thomas, that was amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really enjoyed this conversation. I think what stuck with me the most was your cast iron pan metaphor that leadership and family is something that gets better with care and time. I also love the story of your Swiss army time and your commander walking backwards so he could see every face. I think that’s the kind of servant leadership we need more of. So I’m really grateful for your humility, your honesty, and the reminder to lead with purpose at home and at work. Thank you again for sharing your story.

[00:40:59] Thomas Odermatt: Thank you, Kevin. It’s a pleasure to be here and I very much enjoy. And for all the entrepreneurs out there, hey, it’s fun. Just do it. And sometimes it hurts. You get a little bruised. But you know what?

Just do it. Entrepreneurship is cool and if you have staff that want to be alongside you, even better.

[00:41:22] Kevin Rice: Beautiful. Thank you.

If you’re enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We’ve got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow and stay tuned.